Dare you enter the Whizzard's Realm? Magic and Mysteries abide.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Sounds good. Agree that we need courthouses now, especially in outlying cities. Getting the eastern silver city down is an incredibly coup and will keep us safe for a long time.

Also, if we're working ugly grass tiles, can we work ugly hill tiles instead just in case they hit the threshold for forge +25% hammers?

I'm inclined to think that the GE is worth saving. Statue of Liberty is so powerful on this map, and it will be heavily competed for. Heck, I'd even double GE it if I could. Meanwhile, Spiral Minaret and Sankore are not. Plus, we have stone available (though it's a weakish city that won't be settled for a while). I doubt anyone else has settled for stone (maybe Mist, to get a faster oxford). SoL is 1500h, an engineer will in a size 15 city will knock off 750h (=300 + 30 * size). Of the 750h remaining, we get +200% multiplier into it with copper, bureau, forge and org rel. So we need to generate 250 base hammers. Alas, our capital isn't the most hammer rich of sites, and another city will need to generate 300h without bureau.

It won't make any difference as we are only on 25% boost, but we would loose commerce. 

Your GE calculation seems off. Each pop was only adding 20, and I think it started at 500. It depends on a) are we rushing there for it? I struggle to see how we would be able to neglect everything else and go there. We have a neighbour with astro and another with 3 move galleys. We have jans to think about. If we start to delay for the SoL then the snowball that we could achieve with the extra gold/science could actually SPEED our SoL date by allowing us to tech to it quicker. And of course it is a more failsafe way of getting benefit. That is why I lean on getting spiral. Realistically, I see us getting edu/gunpowder at least pre PP/Democracy. Maybe even having to get astro too.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

So we got an engineer, and we are the city count leaders now WITH a settler already built! Huzzah :P I think he has to go for the HE marked spot just to keep costs down slightly. Otherwise we will be even more stretched.

Maybe I can explain the above better. It is touch and go to get constitution a turn earlier. With UoS/Spiral, it would defintiely happen. It would increase our current research GNP (not inflated by culture/etc by about 15%. That is huge. Unless we are racing for the SoL to the point of not researching anything else first, I think going down that route will give us a faster SoL and I think even if we do rush for the SoL the speed of reaching democracy will make it more likely that we get it.

We have just converted another 2 cities, and will soon convert more. We will start to get some serious power play from the amount of payback we can get from the monk economy here, and I think that will far outplay holding out on the hope of the SoL in the future and rushing it. Essentially I think we are in the trying to do too many things mode currently - lets get a good monk economy, which if we do it right, should let us have a good shot at the SoL.

[El Grillo]

I think consolidating for a bit on the monk wonders sounds reasonable, the game is getting to the point where borders are starting to tighten up, and I can't imagine another team going full tilt on Democracy under those circumstances. It would be tremendously risky.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

I think consolidating for a bit on the monk wonders sounds reasonable, the game is getting to the point where borders are starting to tighten up, and I can't imagine another team going full tilt on Democracy under those circumstances. It would be tremendously risky.

We have thanks to the silver island push have quite little border tensions to be fair. There will be quite a nice demiliterised gap between us and RMOG, and if this makes him push out to his east to take that silver island then all the better causing tensions that way! 

I think in about 10-15 turns though there will be little land available to settle. I can't see us being able to ride to democracy without some detours like you say above, and the spiral synergises nicely with our AP build. Going all out on them for a 5-10 turn window in OR should be really powerful.

[El Grillo]

There's also the benefit of effectively locking down the last remaining monk wonder. I could imagine another SPI player banking a couple of engineers to secure both UoS and SM, but this way the last one should be really unattractive to the other players. As for UoS or SM, I know you have better science multipliers, but gold has more flexibility for trading and emergency upgrades. My gut leans towards SM, but I could see either choice being valid.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

There's also the benefit of effectively locking down the last remaining monk wonder. I could imagine another SPI player banking a couple of engineers to secure both UoS and SM, but this way the last one should be really unattractive to the other players. As for UoS or SM, I know you have better science multipliers, but gold has more flexibility for trading and emergency upgrades. My gut leans towards SM, but I could see either choice being valid.

I think the SM is stronger allowing a higher slider to be run when able. I agree

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Spiral Minaret is a no-brainer of the two. And I see your point of letting short-term gains compound, alright, pull the trigger on using it.

Also, has the silver city's border been popped? If so, nice!

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

Spiral Minaret is a no-brainer of the two. And I see your point of letting short-term gains compound, alright, pull the trigger on using it.

Awesome. I'll put it in tower too.

[ReallyEvilMuffin]

still no tags, link to images
http://imgur.com/a/18J9h

International news

Cities at time of writing
Us 11
Scooter 10
Mackoti 8
Plako 8
RMOG 7
Mistoin 7

Wonders 
Us Taj/AP/SM(pending)
RMOG ND

GAs
Scooter 1

GP
Us 4
Mistoin 3 (4 I think)
Plako 2
RMOG 1
Scooter 1
Mackoti 1

1 unaccounted for, I believe to Mistoin

So yes, from that you can see Scooter threw a GA, got religion, and went HR/caste/paci. Clearly gonna pump some GP. He will be able to get at least 2 this GA. Our numbers are looking nice. We are first in both food and MFG, and top half GNP. With spiral and rep this should hold well. 

Gonna convert WP next turn, and put a missonary on the boat to MB. The other can join the galley east of the clams to convert our new border city. Getting some culture there is important. I'm gonna pump these as much as possible. It is a shame about the 3 active maximum rule.

Now we are going spiral it makes sense to get temples and mons up ASAP. They are better than courthouses except in the furthest reaches. After the photos I changed Isen and TOR to temples.

I don't think there are any plans afoot just yet by anyone for war. We are 2nd in soliders. I did note that the Scooter Mack war is still ongoing. Not sure what to make of that. Hogwarts will 1t borders next turn.

[BRickAstley]

FYI The tags do work, they just aren't in the editor. You can use them manually if you wish.