[Spoilers] The Golem Factory: Beeri Bawl of the Luchuirp

[Sciz]

Still debating on what to do. I think i'm gonna try to negotiate Mist's price down. I'll start by saying that i'll help him but not pay anything, since it's still more worth it for Mist to attack Ilios without me giving him 50g per razed city than it is for him to attack me. Then if he's still adamant I can give him some. 20g per city maybe.

Edit: Though I do have to say that Mist would take CV pretty easily. If I reinforce CV too much, Ithralia is a sitting duck and Ithralia is way more important than CV, so i'll prolly just have to leave CV alone pretty much.

[Sciz]

Well okay, Mist wouldn't budge. At all. It's kind of a prisoner's dilemma I guess, but imo Mist is the most illogical of the two of us. From Mist's perspective, it's like this:

1. I go in a war with him, we attack Ilios together, I let him raze every city, he gets lots of cash that way, and decapitates a strong opponent. He doesn't get 50g per city from me, but he still gets enough to pay for his upgrades and whatnot.
2. He goes in a war with me. He takes CV, and then is stuck in an endless grueling war for a very long time, rendering both of us completely irrelevant in the game.

Obviously #1 is to prefer here. I understand if he wants more money, but looking at the facts, he still gains a lot more by conquering Ilios with me. For me it's like this:

1. I go in a war against Ilios with Mist, I pay him 50g for every razed city. It costs me a lot, but I survive without damages to my own cities.
2. I fight against Mist, and lose at least CV. Devastates me and I'll be completely gone from the rest of the game. Even if I'm not destroyed, i've still lost.

For me, #1 is of course much better. But i'm losing a lot in both situations. Mist however could choose between "not gaining as much" to "losing a lot". I chose between "losing a little" and "losing a lot". I even caved in and said 20g per city. I still lose a bit, but I figured he'd accept that, he still gains some money from me. But nothing. I just can't understand why he'd be willing to attack me now, I told him over and over that both of us will be stuck in the dark ages for ages because of this war.

I guess I could've accepted the 50g per city. I'd have lost a lot of turns of research, but i'd still be in the game. But I didn't want to be strong armed into something like that, and I thought Mist would see the sense in not ruining the game for himself.

So next turn I'll post a few pics of the situation. Not much to say really. He's in the north, and can split off to two different locations. If he goes east, he hits Ithralia, and then i'm fucked. 6 beastmen, 2 scouts and 8 wolves (if he casts his world spell) will mean I'll lose Ithralia. Even though i'm on a hill with river around most sides, I can max get like 8-10 warriors + Barnaxus in there before he arrives. Don't think it's enough.

However if he goes southwest for CV first, I have time to go crazy on warriors, and get like 20 in Ithralia or something, and he'll have no chance of taking it then. Not without major reinforcements.

One really annoying thing with this is the stupid settler I have. It would've created my 4th city next turn, but that's almost right next to Mist's army, so I'm not sure about that now obviously. And I was gonna cast Gifts of Nantosuelta right away, and I still will probably cast it, but I dunno what to do with it. Can I waste 2-3 warriors (depending on if I can get one out of CV in time) to get the hammers in Mutanbo? Should I maybe instead place them in Ithralia? Should I just keep them as weapons for Ithralia defenders?

[Sciz]

Also would you say that the turn of anarchy for switching to Aristocracy is worth it? I lose one warrior from doing it.

[Selrahc]

We're at war now, right?

Also would you say that the turn of anarchy for switching to Aristocracy is worth it? I lose one warrior from doing it.

Aristocracy isn't worth it for a war situation.

Should I just keep them as weapons for Ithralia defenders?

They only add to attack strength, so probably not worth it.

I'd probably hold off on casting the spell altogether. The chances of Mist stealing them as loot would be high, and the benefit would be low.

If he goes east, he hits Ithralia, and then i'm fucked. 6 beastmen, 2 scouts and 8 wolves (if he casts his world spell) will mean I'll lose Ithralia. Even though i'm on a hill with river around most sides, I can max get like 8-10 warriors + Barnaxus in there before he arrives. Don't think it's enough.

6 Sons of Asena rather than Beastmen?

It'll be damn close.

For me, #1 is of course much better. But i'm losing a lot in both situations. Mist however could choose between "not gaining as much" to "losing a lot". I chose between "losing a little" and "losing a lot".

Quite. I think he is under the impression that taking out Ilios is doing you a favour... and it isn't. If we killed him ourselves we would gain far more.

I'm kind of interested in how fair an offer he thinks he is making here.

[Sciz]

Yeah war has been declared, but i'm holding off on updating because I told myself that the entire today would only be spent on working on my essay, and i've actually followed that promise so far, and I intend to continue with it until late night at least.

I can say though that Barnaxus and Michelangelo have been killed. Michelangelo was my level 5 warrior. They were the two that saw the army approaching and had been retreating towards Ithralia every turn, but Mist cast his world spell and got a bunch of 2 move wolves that could catch up with Barnaxus and Michelangelo. Mist lost four wolves, so that's something, but still it sucks a lot to lose Barnaxus. The pieces are too far away to grab, two tiles west of Ithralia. I couldn't really do much about it though, I hurried Barnaxus back as fast as I could. Hopefully he doesnt take the pieces with a unit and goes back home with it. He probably will though.

[Sciz]

Okay small update with one picture:



Yay for red boxes. As I said Barnaxus and Michelangelo have been defeated. The remains of Barnaxus lie on the desert hill two tiles to the west of Ithralia, that's why it says 3 wolves when there are 4 things occupying the two tiles that box is pointing at.

You can see the settler moving away northeast, I'm gonna try to found a city somewhere to the northish of Mutanbo, hopefully with some decent production. I may blast off the world spell then, though CV has to be taken for me to do that, since I don't want Mist to get a hammer or a settled engineer. I will have to move a warrior or two with that settler though, which I can't afford right now, so I dunno what to do really.

At the end of this turn I had 6 warriors in Ithralia. One that came in from Mutanbo, and one created at the end of the turn. I'm not naming the new warriors, can't be assed to when most of them will die soon anyways. I'm letting Mutanbo complete that Wood Golem because it had come a fair way already, but after that I may switch to warriors.

[Sciz]

I'm researching Bronze Working because I might want to switch to Military State when I can. BW will be a much slower tech now though compared to when I WBed it, since in the WB I revolted to aristocracy first which gave me almost double beakers. Too bad Mist didn't attack like 10-15 turns later, I'd have Wood Golems and catapults running, he'd have no chance. Such is life, I guess. I should've been more wary of Mist. I was at first, but then when we never got contact I figured he was concentrating on someone else. Dunno how he even knew I was here considering we never got diplo contact. Can a person see borders without making diplomatic contact? Apparently, I guess.

The long term plan of Engineering is kinda gone right now, obviously. Especially with my tech rate still being awful since switching to aristocracy will make my military efforts weaker. Dunno if i'll continue researching BW though. Originally the plan after CoL was Mysticism -> KotE -> Writing -> Maths -> Engineering. Would bulb engineering with GEs from the world spell and then rush the Guild of Hammers around turn 120 with another GE. That plan is gone. Though I should still continue in that direction somehow, I might have some other more important short term techs to get. Not sure which yet though, lol. Warfare is one of them, as it gives me Military State which makes military production faster, and also enables conquest which I *could* switch to if I wanted even faster military production, but I dunno if it would be worth it since i'd lose agrarianism. I should be able to get pretty fast Wood Golems with both Military State and Conquest, though. Anyways for warfare I need Bronze Working, which is why I started researching it now.

Another tech I could get is archery so i can make lumbermills which would make production better in my to-be-placed city. Originally didn't include it in my plan because archery makes GE bulbing shitty, because bowyers is a high priority tech for GE bulbing, and I never want bowyers. But now I might get it, considering short-term survival is more important. It all depends where I place the city though, I think I can see some hills in the north so I might not need lumbermills at all. It was only if i'd kept my current location for city #4 that i'd really need lumbermills.

Dunno what else to say. KotE wouldn't be much of a help since I'd need a mage guild to produce adepts and those hammers are better spent on warriors. My adepts would have decent 1-tier spells for defending though, with enchanted blades and wall of stone both being pretty useful. But still not worth it. Not now anyways.

[Selrahc]

It's really aggravating. The early game is horrible for the Luchuirp... and we were nearly finished with it. We nearly got past the nasty early threat stage and onto the much more fun midgame. So close.. and yet so far.


Here is what I would say then. Call up Ilios. See if you can bug him into helping you. I'm guessing you had no luck with Uberfish.

Bronze working is a great idea. If we can get copper warriors, it will be great. That might be difficult with an enemy army rampaging around.. but its worth a go.

Not much we can do here other than push as many warriors as possible, and hope it's enough.

[Sciz]

Yeah i've actually already dialed up Ilios, he's looking good to helping me, though he is quite far away and has no military to speak of yet. However he is researching cartography to get open borders with me and is sending me a Thane of Kilmorph to my capital as we speak, with mobility, so it should reach Ithralia in 4 turns or so. It's not much but medic will help a bit.

[Sciz]

Okay, as expected, Mist took Cotton Valley this turn. He lost 4 wolves while taking it though, which is more than I thought.

Here's the situation now:



Beginning of next turn i'll have 8 warriors in Ithralia, one of them being combat 1 + shock 1, which is something. He has 5 sons of asena, 1 beastman, 2 scouts and 2 wolves. Altogether 10 units. Scouts are pretty much a non-factor, and the wolf that isn't combat 3 is as well, which means 7 units that are actually decent. Plus it'll take him two turns to get them all in position, by that time i'll have 10 warriors in Ithralia. So yeah he's not going to be able to take it right away anyways.

Ilios has a Thane coming my way, it'll be on the tile E-SE of Mutanbo on turn 71, which is the turn he gets cartography. I'll offer him open borders, and he'll move the Thane to the tile SW of the desert, since Malakim units have double movement on desert tiles. That leaves two turns until it reaches Ithralia, but still. Might make a difference, might not. The settler is in Mutanbo now, not sure what to do with it. I sent an extra warrior down from Mutanbo so there's only one single warrior in it, but since dwarves have double move on hills I can easily reach it before any barbarian or Mist attack. I'll keep the settler in Mutanbo now though, as I can't protect a new city with anything. Depending on what happens with Ithralia I might move behind Ilios borders, but I really don't want to do that, because that's the pussy way out.

As you can see the tech rate has plummeted because of the loss of Cotton Valley. If I had aristocracy it'd still be decent but yeah. Worst thing that can happen now is if Mist just plunders everything around Ithralia. Not sure what i'd do then. If I only had one catapult... But It's like 5-6 turns for a siege workshop, and 3-4 turns for a catapult. Too much. Same with a Wood Golem, though it's a bit less than that, maybe 8 turns altogether.