Ichabod Wrote:Nice work, Ravus! 
And this definetely seems to be a very fun game to play.
The opponents have made it fun! Everyone has their own agenda and it's all starting to reach a climax.
Quote:Regarding the Hyborem or war techs choice:
What do you get by going BW, HR and Military State? A 5 strenght unit with a little bonus attacking cities (copper axemen), a cheap strenght 4 unit better use for defense (copper warriors), the ability to promote your units to mobility (no point investing in horse warfare with the Orcs, in my opinion, except if you can get chariots - even then there are better options) and 2 crazy good civics (conquest + military state).
What you have now, considering a priest army is: 2 move, self promoting 5 strenght units from the get go that doesn't have a common counter promotion (mackoti will probably have some shock units). This units have spells to go with them too.
Anyway, I don't see you investing everything into building an axemen army. Axemen are cheaper then priests, that's right, but they still need training yards before being built and they don't come with free promos (if you are in conquest or apprenticeship, you can get mobility from the get go in YOUR FIRST WARREN UNIT, remember that the second comes with no xp - no problems for priests and their natural mobility due to spiritual). Besides, they have the same strenght as priests, while being vulnerable to rust, and their counter promotion is way more common. You'd be investing a lot to gain little in return by forgoing priests to make axemen.
hmmm I was convinced you would think I should go Military and I was starting to lean in that direction myself. I wasn't going to build any axemen, just one training yard and the upgrade my current stock of none marked warriors... The Mobility promo was mainly for the Shamans. If they can get mobility and haste then It can keep up with the Priests and make my army the same speed as mobility Vamps.
But at the end of the day I can allways come back to that plan later. But even if I do go Infernal I might grab Military State First just to help as i'm starting to pay a lot on troops and it seemed the most worthwhile technology.
Quote:You could invest a bit in diseased corpses healed by your priests. But they are slow and they can't get haste, if I remember correctly, so you'd need the ability of getting the mobility promotion. They'd be strenght 7 with bronze (you could borrow copper from Sareln to upgrade them), but only str 5 against most Mackoti units (like spectres and skellies), due to death damage. It's an option, but not that strong, I think.
Yes Corpses are none living and so can't be hasted. But end game the Apcoalypse causes half of the LIVING units to go barbarian. So having some undead around then could be helpful.
Quote:The only really good thing you'd get by going military techs now is the conquest and military state civics. These civics are very powerful and they'd help you produce an army quicker. But, in the end, you already have the infrastructure to produce a quick army with your warrens. Could you support an army built that quick? Maybe... It's something to think about.
I think I will grab this before Infernals I can be in Military State while teching to Infernals and then afterwards I might just shut down my whole teching ecnomey and run Sacrifice the Weak with Conquest to shove out troops by the bucketload.
There a few mid-game techs (trade, Bronzeworking) that I could use and a few tempting late game techs (Fanatacism to slingshot to Malevolent Designs)
But I don't NEED them. They'd just be bonuses.
Quote:The infernal option is tempting, especially due to the fun factor involved and the fact that you were planning for it from the start. Hyborem could either cause a lot of damage or being thrown into irrelevance, depending on where it spawned. Imagine if he appeared at the desert between Sareln and Mackoti? That'd be golden.
There is a lot of good places he could spawn. He could be unlucky and spawn on one of the islands though. Or he could spawn in the Southern Ice Cap below me. But there are a lot of good places. It also brings hell terrain into play. Which as we all know KILLS flood plains and turns them into burning sands.
Quote:Blight would own mackoti. Seriously! He's a BTS player, so I bet a lot that he doesn't have a single health building in his cities. That'd be wasting precious hammers. Besides, he has a lot of big cities, with unhealthiness from terrain and from Vampire things. If we can get his cities below size 6, suddenly he can't draft anymore. You and sareln, on the other hand, have a lot of health due to traits and terrain.
The question is: can you do the blight on time for it to be useful?
Ah, Rosier could be pretty useful to the coming war!
Yes, the Blight thing has been on my mind. If he is up on FFH Mechanics and has Vampires out (practically a given) He could suck his own cities dry just before the blight hits to limit the damage. It would be easier to wait for the unhappiness to leave then the blight (I think.)
But either way if he sucks them that dry he won't be able to support a conquest expansion.
It's actually some of the others that might get hit hard. Mist is growing vertically and could be done in by it and from the map I can't see the Amurites and the Hippus having many health Resources. Thankfully the Blight should hit AFTER the war with the Vampires so the Hippus will be able to support their units.
Rosier also adds +3AC
My tentative time table was just before the mad update.
The AC is currently 5% or 8/134.
30% of 134 is 40/134
I get +2 per turn from PoR spamming warriors
I get +1 for every city that gets Veil spread to it
I get +? for the Veil founding
I get +3 for Rosier being built
I get +? for the Infernals coming into play
I get +? for enemy cities being Razed
As you can see there is a lot of leeway in this. I think the city razing is +1per pop. But I can't be certain. But even if we ignore everything but the PoR that means that Blight will happen 16 turns after I build PoR. (8+(16x2))=40
Taking into account the Religion spreading and the founding and I could get blight as early as turn 135, just 10 turns after Founding Ashen Veil and Building the PoR.
Quote:BTW, do you think the players will mind if your dedlurker plays the Infernals? 
I'm pretty sure Krill is still the player-in-waiting for the Infernals. Part of the fun of bringing them into play is some of the fear/respect people have for krill and trying to keep rushing up the AC while people panic.
Quote:Anyway, my opinion is to go for the infernals. If you don't want to this stright away, I'd suggest getting to Military State for the civics. Maybe try to get a borrow of copper from Sareln, for better warriors, but I wouldn't say that's a priority. HR won't be very useful, except if you want to dramtically change your army composition.
Maybe you can negotiate with Sareln to exchange priests: Leaves for AV. Having the ability to produce some leaves priests would be good (spiritual switches and warrens). But then you'd lose Rosier, if you already built him.
Don't forget to send some haste adepts with your stack. Better yet, send them to help Sareln's priests! Can you coordinate something like that? What's the turn order? It'd most definetely help.
Wow, enough ramblings for now. This is one confuse post, let's hope it can be a little helpful too.
I guess unless I change my mind i'm Convinced for the Military State->Infernal push. Should at least cause some fun responses.
The exchange with Sareln will probably not happen. Last Messages have him now selling settlers too Mist so I doubt he has time for an exchange and frankly I don't have time to research the Leaves Religion. Plus Rosier boosts the AC so why would I not have him?
I have some Shamans being built and they will keep up with Sarelns move priests so i'm sending him one.
I keep forgetting the turn order. I will put it down here eventually :neenernee
