[SPOILERS] Dazed and scooter play Stalin of Vikings and make a big mess

[scooter]

Ok thought about this some more. I say don't ditch Oracle - too much to gain from that.

However, I would think we can upgrade the warrior to an axe - it's not THAT expensive right? 60g or less? Not at a civ-capable computer right now, and I can't seem to be able to find upgrade costs on google.

Basically, the city needs to burn. It completely destroys our dotmap.

[dazedroyalty]

I'll check on the warrior upgrade later (at work now).

The ONLY reason I'm tempted to just build axes instead of Oracle is because Buddhism fell. The other day we were talking and I think I said (maybe I just dreamed this) that I felt really good if we can get priesthood before anyone else get's Meditation. Well, we were 3 turns off of that. So what are the odds that 1) whoever got buddhism is going for Oracle? 2) that they have marble and/or 3) have lots of forests left?

So really, the question is how long it will take us to build it with only one chop. I'd like to say that it needs to be 6-7 turns max, but that's totally a guess. If someone can chop it out in 1 turn we're screwed regardless.

[scooter]

Well ok, Novice thinks a chop is 16h (20->16). This sounds right, as I think I remember it being 10h (13->10) on Quick, so that would line up. Oracle is 150h. With IND bonus, this chop is 24h of that, which should knock a turn off of it.

Basically, if the Buddhism person goes straight to Priesthood (probably what, 5-6T to tech it?) and 1-turns Oracle with forests and overflow, yes we are hosed. I think I'm still willing to risk it though. If they go straight to Priesthood but 1) take longer to tech it than we did or 2) take more than, say, 2T to build it, then its ours. Considering we probably only have the Buddhism founder to compete with us, our odds are generally good. I'd estimate we have a 75% chance. I'm cool with the risk just because of the considerable upside of landing it. However, let's keep that forest until it would finish Oracle.

[dazedroyalty]

Yeah it does seem worth it. Just nervousness combined with "KILL BRICK" feelings made me rethink for a minute. Worst case scenario is that Priesthood was a 4 turn tech (doubt it) and they chop the oracle with Marble. More realisitc for the purposes of guessing: 5T tech and say 4 turns to build with chops or Marble but not both. So that's nine turns. We had a 3T (is that right?) advantage on priesthood which would mean that we have 6 turns to finish it. This really could come down to a coinflip in that case. BEST case, it's a 6T tech with no Marble and few chops meaning 8 turns to build. THen it's a given we get it.

[scooter]

Chat with Dazed - dropping this here so he has a reminder.

me: we prob need to figure out the quickest wayto get oracle. there's 3 ways
1) when settler finishes, max food to size 5, then swap to both mines for 14hpt base => 21hpt while building oracle
2) immediate oracle after settler while working the current tiles. slower growth to sz5, but working mines for longer
3) when settler is 1T away, whip for overflow and max food to regrow to size4 in a few turns
dazedroyalty: those options all make sense
i'd simply vote for the fastest one
me: i'm guesing they'll all be similar
dazedroyalty: whichever it is
me: yeah
but one might be 1t bettr which in this case matters
so when you login, can I get the food & hammer box statuses

List:
1) Upgrade cost on warrior to axe
2) food and hammer box statuses
3) Turn number for reference (screenshot inside cap while hovering over those food/hammer boxes might be the easiest way)

[novice]

Can you upgrade units in neutral territory?

[dazedroyalty]

No, we'd have to pull back. OUr new city will be planted in 3 more turns, which is about when the warrior would reach there. If he gets back to the choke point and there's still only warriors....

[scooter]

Looks like it's 80G. We only have 60.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

I'm pretty sure normal speed chops are 20H pre-maths, 30H post-maths.

[scooter]

I'm pretty sure normal speed chops are 20H pre-maths, 30H post-maths.

Yes, but we are talking about a forest that's 1 tile outside the BFC which doesn't give 20. I know on quick it's 10h premaths (down from 13) which makes Novice's guess of 16h on normal sound right. I can confirm tomorrow.