One of these days I'll get to a big overview. Not today.
Both WK's and HK's borders expanded around my exploring bloodpet, teleporting him quite some distance.
"I'm very sorry BP, but due to our recent cost cutting measures, ALL of us have to take in some slack."
"But you're KILLING ME!!!! And taking a 1gpt raise for yourself for being such a good manager!"
"Your position has been terminated, yes, but I wouldn't be calling it murder, just good business. Everyone has to take one for the team sometime!
My other exploring bloodpet found some ugly tan borders.
Wait a minute, that wasn't there last turn!.
HK beat me to it by 2 turns. Again. Note that HK now has cartography too (and I know he's made an OB deal with TBS)
Um, that's getting pretty close to MY territory. That corn city south of the peak is looking mighty important, but I'm going to have to hurry if I want it.
5 more turns before I turn research back on.
My core cities are having a brief spout of vertical growth as I've got 3 more libraries going up in that time frame. Academy + libraries and a nice pile of gold should get me through to vampires.
I like to think of deleted units as retiring to the nearby countryside
Hmm yeah that would be a good border but I wonder if he won't be able to steal it...IMO we should focus on securing the south, and then look at how much of that area we can grab.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
So I haven't seen a save in a couple days and was poking around in game when I realized that it was turn 76...meaning TBS has had the chance to choose a new trait to replace philosophical. 3 guesses Q, and no cheating.
organized
So yeah, I don't get it. I guess with his big cities his civic costs could be pretty high...? But he's already tops in GNP. command posts are nice and all, but the +20% doesn't matter much with super cities. Maybe he's expecting the game to run long and to switch to charismatic on T145? I guess I can expect to see a FoTT build shortly if he's thinking insta-mages. I sure am glad he didn't grab raiders! I usually take spiritual at this point, to facilitate switching into the good cottage civics and to prevent lost turns going into and out of war civics (and more powerful religions). IMO that's the best way to counteract the Kurios' cap on production: always be in the best civics/religion for what you're doing at the moment. Spiritual PoL would have been worrisome as well.
Ok, now where's my war alert smiley? Hmm, this will have to do:
So after ~40 hours of holding onto it, Yell0w finally passes me the save, and he sends this message with it.
Yell0w Wrote:Hey hey,
as you very well know you got the best of the land grab, one reason for this is close borders with Sian. Anyways, the settler you have comming to my South... I'd appreciate if you turn around and look for another place to settle, I'm about to settle there in the next two turns. Since I'm totally boxed in, I don't have a lot of options. So I'd basically have to contest that spot militarily. If it should come to this, I have Priesthood and some Monks ready to intervene, but I hope I don't have to.
I popped the dungeon for a Great Spider the same turn your borders popped, so you might want to move your warrior back.
I still hope we can have peaceful relations, looking at the city screen I don't think you necessarily need to settle this spot.
In exchange I would propose open borders for trade routes which would be a lot better for you than for me.
If you want we also can sign a NAP to turn 125.
Well, let me know what you think
TL;DR - Don't settle down south or I'll ruin you with monks.
Ok, I'm pretty angry with this message. I brought up border agreements two weeks ago, to which he never responded.
jalepeno Wrote:Date: Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 4:28 AM
Hmmm, I was thinking of doing just a 10 turn trade, so a worker is too much. Will you be getting currency soon to allow gold trading? If not, I've got an extra sugar and horse coming online soon; would either of those interest you? No rush, as I wasn't thinking of using marble for another 5-10 turns.
What kind of length/conditions are you thinking for a NAP? We're so close, I feel like we'd better include some sort of border deal.
All the best,
Jalepeno
I've had this city planned for 10 turns or so, and diverting it out of the south would waste a half dozen turns. I don't just wander around looking for places to settle. Also, I have to have this spot as it's my only shot at wheat, and despite his whining there's still unsettled land around him.
Judging from his power graph, he can't have built any monks yet (worth 18K, and he hasn't had a bump over like 4K)
no way he can settle there in two turns unless he has an army of workers roading
I have 2 bloodpets and a moroi on site; another BP and moroi can be there in 2 turns
HBR is a 2-turn tech
city is 3 tiles from my closest city, 5 from his closest
city is 8 tiles from his capital...his second city was 6 tiles from mine
Draft response:
Hey,
I think you must be thinking I'm going further south than I am. The plan was to settle in place this turn (on the grass hill you saw him on last turn, 1NE of the wheat). The city is only 3 tiles from Agile (5 tiles from your closest city), so it's as non-threatening as I could make it. It's my only shot at wheat on the whole map; that extra 10% from the brewery is huge and my GNP absolutely sucks right now (5th). It's so important to me, when you read my thread after the game you'll see I've had it planned since August 9th.
I'm disappointed that you're bringing this up now: I asked you about including border agreements in a NAP two weeks ago...and never heard anything back. Now the very turn I'm about to settle, you threaten me with monks (have you built any yet? 18K each in soldier points - the bump should have been noticeable). And it's not as if that's your only remaining spot to settle. There's a bunch of unsettled land directly to your west that I won't be going for at all. It's too far from WK and TBS already has all resources, so it should be all yours.
So here's what I propose. I settle that spot as planned, but promise to not go any further south (or north from the other end). We work out a borders agreement for the East (SE of Glens) as part of OB and a NAP. No point in a NAP without border deal. Fighting just doesn't make sense for us; TBS is dominating (he's got like 15 more pop than I do, highest GNP, near top in MFG/food, etc. etc) and HK already has 9 cities. So I hope we can remain peaceful.
All the best
Goal is to prevent war while keeping that spot. If he decides he wants war though, there's no way he can take that spot any time soon and I've got him dominated in MG. I'm not worried. Feedback would be much appreciated Q!
I think that is entirely reasonable and a good message. Does it rule out the site to the west of it that was gonna be the border?
You may want to include a short dig about distances from capital. I do think that a NAP might as well happen, as I don't see us planning any aggression against him for ~20 turns.
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
Unfortunately I thought the spoiler would be a picture, so no guesses out of me. I am really surprised by ORG - its not a particularly good combat trait ans his GNP doesn't need the minimal help it will give. I suppose it indicates towards a mage game, which is a plus IMO.
Do you think he would summon Mercurians? What are our rules on that?
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
(August 30th, 2013, 15:56)Qgqqqqq Wrote: I think that is entirely reasonable and a good message. Does it rule out the site to the west of it that was gonna be the border?
You may want to include a short dig about distances from capital. I do think that a NAP might as well happen, as I don't see us planning any aggression against him for ~20 turns.
Well, no word back from Yell0w yet, but I hope to hear something today. It does rule out the fur border city, but we can settle 2N-1W to have a good clams, pig, dye city that claims both mana. Problem with a NAP is he's offering 48 turns (to 125). I'm expecting to have vampires in 20 turns, so that's a bit too long (especially since his worldspell can then enforce and even long NAP).
(August 30th, 2013, 16:05)Qgqqqqq Wrote: Unfortunately I thought the spoiler would be a picture, so no guesses out of me. I am really surprised by ORG - its not a particularly good combat trait ans his GNP doesn't need the minimal help it will give. I suppose it indicates towards a mage game, which is a plus IMO.
Do you think he would summon Mercurians? What are our rules on that?
No Mercurians as we're playing compact-enforced. Organized is quite popular though apparently: I just remembered to check since WK is adaptive as well, and he's also still organized (cassiel starts organized in EITB). mage army makes quite a bit more sense for him.
Having warned Yell0w that I absolutely must have that spot, I went ahead and settled city #9.
If he declares war I'm changing the name to Lose-lose. Settling revealed a warrior and 2 workers on the ancient tower, so he wasn't kidding about settling in this area soon. Let's hope the part about monks ready to burn my city was a bluff!
Gotta get those borders popped asap. Workers are improving the wheat first: need it for the brewery in 3 turns and hoping to get them out of harms way before he shows up with an army.
If Yell0w does decide he has no choice but to attack (which he seems to do a fair amount judging from his other games), here are the relevant data for predicting the outcome.
Never mind the fact that I'm a total MP newb; how hard can it be, right?
One potential issue:
Been working on that 4th warrior for awhile now, so the stack could be coming any turn now. Not a problem unless the timing is bad with a Yell0w DOW.
Overview of the empire
The north
The core
The south
Note that all but 2 cities grew EOT, which made a pleasant impact on the demos.
Turn opened with an event for 5 gold. Surely a portent of good things to come! Well, no war dec from Yell0w, so I guess that'll do. His power hasn't budged either. He must think I'm really, really nice:
...threatens war and leaves his worker uncovered. Maybe he's just trying to provoke casus belli from me, but I left the worker alone. I'm going with the assumption that those warriors are going home, not chasing my scouting bloodpet. Keeping him to defensive terrain regardless.
Especially since he's definitely not been very nice.
I noticed WK and Yell0w were at war last turn, went fishing for info, and got this response from WK.
WarriorKnight Wrote:Well it's nothing really serious, he only killed my scout that managed to locate him. Apparently it was because I was near a dungeon and I could pop out a mistform near his border, even though I had no intention of exploring said dungeon. Pretty aggressive move upon first contact huh? Poor scout...
After he popped a dungeon 2 tiles from Agile which I specifically requested he not touch. Yell0w's ideas on dungeon etiquette seem a touch self-serving.
Yell0w seems to be moving forward with his expansion in the south.
Really hope he doesn't build on the "border city - furs" sign.
Ok, last turn I gave a large overview of the empire. Now it's time for a look city-by-city (screenshots from EOT).
Paradigm
1 turn to the brewery, 2 turns to an academy and turning tech back on. Plan is to keep growing to work as much commerce as possible.
Synergies
Just finished the library. Settler is for a stepping-stone city 1NE of the ivory which would strengthen my presence in the east and work my way towards an eventual border with HK.
Collaboration
I wanted to keep growing this beast while finishing the baths, but decided more military was the wisest course of action right now. The unimproved FP pains me, but worker efficiency has been my priority here.
Incentivize
City has grown 3 sizes in 3 turns and my workers (2 on scene) just can't keep up. Just squeezed in an MP bloodpet here so that I can send the moroi to the Yell0w border. Settler is for clams/pig/dye down by the mana.
Networking
Would love to build a breeding pit, but because of the recent saber rattling from Yell0w I one-turned a training yard (had some overflow) this turn and will almost certainly go straight onto moroi.
Also, you can see here I'm taking advantage of the nifty unhappiness trick Q shared (from Ellimist)
Quick Wins
This city is about to take off as I've got two workers busily farming. Crap production so will probably put hunting lodge here so that I don't waste hammers building hawks.
Social Media
There's a great city hidden under all that jungle. 3 workers here and it won't be even close to enough to keep up with the coming growth.
Win-win
I'm actually planning to switch to the wheat next turn - delays border pops by a turn, but there's no sign of an invading army yet and the wheat is just too good to not be working.
Demos
So while Yell0w's power is holding steady (rival average hasn't budged from last turn), TBS' GNP and MFG just took another big jump. Tech with lots of pre-reqs while building form of the titan...? Better that than teching stirrups while building lots of centaurs for upgrades. *shudder*
So on turn 77 I noticed that the foreign advisor tech screen was finally showing something.
No idea how long he's had trade, but that let me figure out what techs he has.
Code:
Full TBS tech list I don't have: He doesn't have:
agriculture HBR Masonry
exploration Trade Bronze Working
crafting fishing Construction
ancient chants sailing Sanitation
calendar archery Drama
festivals warfare
animal husbandry military state
HBR mysticism
trade KOTE
fishing Philosophy
sailing
hunting
mining
archery
education
writing
warfare
military state
code of laws
mysticism
KOTE
philosophy
It's actually nowhere near as bad as I'd feared. He's up lots of beakers on me, but they aren't beakers into fearsome military techs and I've got a few techs on him. My guess is that researching code of laws indicates he's heading towards taxation (COL ->mathematics -> currency -> taxation) after trade since it doesn't do anything else for him. Very interesting that he hasn't bothered getting WOTF (founded FOL with a dungeon pop disciple), so no fawns ergo no satyrs. So it wouldn't surprise me to see him land another religion soon. He's also several techs from lancers (chariot replacement), so his best units are hunters. I'm willing to bet he got the free GC at military state and is now building FOTT.
Basically, my strong neighbor to the west appears to be focusing on economy right now and is a low threat short term. That changes in a hurry if stirrups disappears from the Can Research list, but I think archery is just for lumbermilling ancient forests.
Settling revealed a warrior and 2 workers on the ancient tower, so he wasn't kidding about settling in this area soon. Let's hope the part about monks ready to burn my city was a bluff!
