[SPOILERS] Back to Basic - Mardoc plays Augustus of China

[Sullla]

Not trying to hijack this thread, but those promotions still don't make sense even with that explanation. Both Guerilla II and Woodsman II let a one-move unit move twice if it's across hills or forested/jungle terrain. If you're going to promote along those lines, then sinking another promotion into Morale (the +1 base movement ability) doesn't offer much of an advantage. I find it hard to believe that this one Gallic Swordsman benefitted much from having FIVE different promotions poured into movement abilities (Guerilla I/II, Woodsman I/II, Morale), all of which still capped the unit at a maximum of two moves per turn.

Why not Guerilla II (for double movement on hills and going along with free Guerilla I) paired with Morale and then City Raider I/II? That's two moves per turn on anything other than non-hill forests, and it would have a much better chance of razing something.

[Mardoc]

GG Mardoc, we've pretty much already discussed the general stuff but its a shame that the map pretty much ensured an earlyish war between us while blessing the others with a degree of isolation.

Yeah, you had to go for the strategics, and I didn't have anywhere to expand but through you. If I'd had my way, our war would have been a few turns later, but we were still going to fight.

These things happen on a fully random map, though.

If I hadn't messed up and bet wrongly on the tile flipping to my culture, I may well have been able to burn your city and relieve the cultural pressure on Gergovia. Live and learn I suppose.

Yeah, lesson for me. Just because a stack looks like it's intended for defense, doesn't mean it has to stay on the defense!

I think in retrospect, the reason I kept the tile is that cultural borders only shift at the end of a turn, when barbs move. That meant you went to >50% on your turn, but it went back to 50% on mine. Course, if I'd had the missionary just one turn later, you'd have gotten that tile anyway.

Anyhoo, it was fun and thanks for doing a good spolier thread on this so there is at least some record of the game. Shall be interesting to see what happens next.

Likewise, thanks for a good game, letting me get my toes wet. I think I'm probably going to be abandoning FFH now and just play BtS. After I finish up my current games, of course.

What's next? Primarily it's a question of whether owning lots of land can make up for being behind in all other ways . I do plan to keep reporting, so you can find out with me.

[Twinkletoes89]

I (noobishly) thought I could get up to 3 moves at the time across the terrain to strike from far away as I knew where his city was. Clearly I assumed wrong. Plus as I was facing warriors I didn't think about upping strength, just maximising speed. And as this was a casual game I was just going off that assumption when I opened the save

[Mardoc]

Not trying to hijack this thread

Don't worry about it. The whole point of me joining this game was to start to figure out the odds and ends of BtS that differ from FFH, and promotions and Great Generals definitely fall in that category!

After Civil Service, I hope?

Errr...which bit? Optics beeline, Monarchy, Guilds?

You suggesting I change research next turn, or just pick up CS before going deep?

[Commodore]

After Civil Service, I hope?

Errr...which bit? Optics beeline, Monarchy, Guilds?

You suggesting I change research next turn, or just pick up CS before going deep?

I'd bet you a dollar Bureau would make CS/Monarchy/Optics faster than Monarchy/Optics

[Qgqqqqq]

Likewise, thanks for a good game, letting me get my toes wet. I think I'm probably going to be abandoning FFH now and just play BtS. After I finish up my current games, of course.

Why? Not in a accusatory way, just what do you prefer?

[Mardoc]

Likewise, thanks for a good game, letting me get my toes wet. I think I'm probably going to be abandoning FFH now and just play BtS. After I finish up my current games, of course.

Why? Not in a accusatory way, just what do you prefer?

Well, for one thing, it's T125 and it's not endgame...

Seriously, BtS seems deeper. To win a game of FFH, you need to get to your Tier 3 unit, build a bunch of it, and take over the world. Or else build a bunch of it, defend yourself, and rush the Tower. Offense is very much favored in FFH, so you have to hit them before they hit you, even if you want to try a different style of game.

It seems to me that FFH is about picking the right strategy and civ, and executing it competently, then winning. You can't change your path or you'll just be behind, and you can get far enough ahead fast enough to just win outright if you pick the right approach.

FFH wars are a very clear example of this. You can't build an army fast, you generally only have one unit type worth building, it's either enough or it's not. And armies move so fast that one mistake equals dead army equals dead civ.

BtS, you set up a strategy, a goal, and when you arrive, it just gives you an advantage. This war against TT is an exception in that it was decisive. But even so, it hasn't put me in a winning position, just in the lead. Decisive for him - not so much for me. On top, that war had depth. It started as an attempted Horse Archer surprise romp, but TT expected that and built spears, so I had to switch to cats and axes. If he'd still had horses, he'd have gone HA then and I'd have needed spears. There are changes in strategy and tactics within a single war, always trying to think three steps ahead. And ancient war is the type with the *fewest* options! Where in FFH - you need more of your uber unit. More vampires, or more mithril chariots, or whatever - and then you just romp. No real counters except to have more than the opponent.

All that said - I don't dislike FFH, but I've only got a limited amount of free time and I think BtS will be more fun. If I change my mind again later, then I'll be back. And I think I'll still play FFH succession games and/or Adventures, if there are any more of those.

[Mardoc]

Three turns in a day, I could get used to this

Durkon whipped in a Courthouse. Debated if that was worth doing, since I whipped off a couple new cottages, but I think it's important to start cutting down on my maintenance bills. And the EP will be useful too. It's more or less even at the moment, losing 2.5 gpt in maintenance and 2 commerce/turn of cottage production - but that ignores the EP and the way maintenance will be ramping up. Next up, a Market - but that one requires more base commerce, so I plan to grow a bit more first.

Roy's working on some Gardens for me. Three turns until I can get my Stone back, so it'll be useful to cancel.



And I'm debating the right time to whip in Haley's Market. Right now I lean toward waiting for it to drop to a 2-pop whip. Or at least for Haley to grow past the coast tiles. It'll be worth a good chunk of change, though.




In other news...just how far does this continent stretch, anyway? Do barbs build improvements? Maybe those ruins I've found were barb cities, not Ruff cities? I think I see red borders in that jungle, though.




And I don't quite know how, but I've got contact with Sian now. Looks like I've definitely got the land edge on him, at least for the moment. Hopefully he'll boost me toward the techs I want. Civil Service is now on the inch-towards list, but I can't finish it before running out of gold at the present economic situation.

Splitting my EP between him and Ruff for the moment.







One advantage to a 3-player game is that I know Rival Best and Rival Worst each belong to someone specific. Have to guess who's who, but I actually have numbers.

Not that I'm a huge fan of them, the way they look at the moment. But at least I know what I'm up against.



One last bit:


Not exactly where I want it, but probably close enough to be worth capturing rather than razing.

[Mardoc]

That's definitely Ruff. Now I just need to find a port.




Sian asked for Open Borders, I told him no.

Nothing much else to report. The cities with granaries captured have now filled their granaries, so they'll be accelerating as contributors now.

Also, I realized something important I was overlooking about Machinery: windmills! I've got lots and lots of hills, and not an abundance of food; I suspect I could easily use 20-30 windmills in my empire. Not urgently, as I've still got coast to grow onto most places, but soon.

[Goreripper]

What is your great person plan?