RBP3 [Spoilers] Capac of Mali

[Swiss Pauli]

T85 Report

Ronnie bashed the barb at Blake without taking a scratch, so I moved him out to the forest hill HE of the horses, revealing corn and busting some more fog.

Otherwise a very quiet turn with units getting on with their tasks...and no incoming barbs

Big news of the turn was England telling us of the first barb axe sighting. This persuaded me to put a chariot in Sticky Fingers' build queue in case of incoming barbs.

Jack found some 'food' in the newly named Peak District:





I think Jack should remain in sentry mode on the plains hill.

EPs were reassigned: 3 to Inca and 1 to Rome. Next turn, we should switch to all on Rome as we'll have 43 with Inca.

[dsplaisted]

Swiss, make sure you read my cross-post with you (which is on the previous page).

[Swiss Pauli]

Chat with England, who thought roading up to their silks meant roading the darned things for them They said it'd be a while before they'd hook them up, but given the yield is a bit meh it doesn't really make sense for them to plantation now & road later. We'll see what they decide in due course...

16:23 Haphazard1,: hey
16:24 me: hiya
Haphazard1,: I was definitely the least sure about the funding bit
mutual defense was straightforward: We expect support, but can't ever force someone to fight
me: It's tricky to work out what's fair
16:25 Haphazard1,: very
especially since our civs aren't all equal
me: when it comes to funding
which is why a review makes sense
Haphazard1,: although, tbh, a researcher can expand MORE easily than a funder
under my system
they'll get fed gold if it exists
16:26 at least, I think that's the way it would work
16:27 me: we'll have to see how it goes
Haphazard1,: yeah
16:28 and "round of techs" is tricky...
look at the staggered differences this time around
me: this was more like two rounds though
Haphazard1,: Carthage got Math and Construction
me: cos there were too many civs
16:29 Haphazard1,: in less time than, say, Currency or Calendar (although you guys started later, too)
me: but carthage has the best teching land ever
Haphazard1,: omg...it's nuts
me: and we suffered massively from lack of IW
Haphazard1,: and Pacal's the perfect leader for "best teching land ever", too
jungle everywhere?
16:30 me: to silver til t82
*no
Haphazard1,: yeah, we didn't get ours until T81
iron took precedence
since we were copper-screwed
that's one of the reasons we had wanted to fight France: They took the nearest copper to us.
This copper was significantly closer to them AND the HRE than it was to us
but it was still the closest
16:35 me: Our worker is going to road up to Gib's silks next turn. Can you see any barbs in the area?
Haphazard1,: nope, no barbs
16:36 awesome, we'll be moving onto the forest next turn
also, our land will be barb-immune
16:37 me: which is bad news for the rest of us
Haphazard1,: it's all the open land to our east that worries us
16:38 to the west, that's filling up fast
very few barbs will be coming that way
it's HRE and to a lesser extent Babylon who get extra barbs
mostly HRE
16:43 me: The lands to our west-north-west are our barb problem area
crap land and hardly a hill to station sentries
Haphazard1,: we haven't seen barbs that way (our SW) in ages
Conan killed a few
but since, I haven't seen one
16:48 of course, we've got a barb axe
sitting right there
near Beaver Rock
in our NE
and our forces aren't near
dammit.
5 minutes
16:53 me: ack!
16:54 Haphazard1,: meh, we'll whip
catapult to overflow into chariot
16:55 delays our revolt into HR/OR until T87
but whatever
even if the chariot doesn't win (and there are no hills near BR
an archer can clean up
16:57 me: Well it's convinced me to put token hammers in a chariot at Sticky just in case
Haphazard1,: especially with unpopped borders
16:58 just remember the 10t decay
16:59 when's Calendar due?
me: 3 turns: T88
17:00 Haphazard1,: thinks through micro for a bit in the interests of getting the silks online ASAP, we'll be chopping the silks, not roading it.
T89, the forest will be chopped
17:02 me: no problem: now's really the only window we have to road so we'll use it
17:03 and we have foreign trade routes in all our cities already
17:04 Haphazard1,: ok
17:05 we do appreciate the help
the road will save us some time
I'd give you 5g for your troubles, but it seems that gold's communal anyway
17:06 hm. Plantation takes, what, 6t?
17:07 it isn't fast
me: yeah around 6t
17:08 Haphazard1,: still, we'll get the silks up a few turns sooner
without having to road
you'd need 2 road segments
to connect
17:10 me: slight misunderstanding: we are going to road up to the silks, not on them.
Haphazard1,: ah
well, the silks won't have a road for a while
me: not sure we can spare the 3 extra worker turns to road them for you
Haphazard1,: fair enough
17:11 we'll road there eventually
17:12 was hoping you wanted the TRs
17:13 me: We already have them in all cities
17:14 river connection to Carthage & HRE
Haphazard1,: our TRs with HRE have been 1-way
we didn't fogbust enough
they did
but Babylon's got 4 cities
as do we

[Swiss Pauli]

Sirian will hit size 6 on turn 88, and we can put 1 turn into a Settler and then triple-whip it on turn 89.

Sounds perfect

We can whip a Worker on turn 90 in Blake. We can do it by working the copper and then single whipping, or by working a 2/0/0 grassland plains (and giving up the horses for 1 turn), and then double-whipping. I'll have to figure out which is better.

Instinctively, I'd say single whipping at three pop, but I'll wait for you to run the numbers.

We don't have any food-rich sites which would make a good Globe Theatre draft city. Maybe we should build one on the flood plains with a bunch of farms? At size 5 we'd get +12 food/turn, which is enough to draft 3 out of every 4 turns.

Yeah, but the tricky part will be building the Globe, given how hammer-poor those FP sites are. I'm sure we'll manage it somehow

EDIT: In Uberfish, we might want to start a Worker when we hit size 5, and then double-whip the Library after the unhappiness from previous whips wears off more.

Yes, seeing as we'll be saving cash until Currency comes in it might make sense to get another worker before completing the library at Uberfish. I'll try to get Currency's ETA from Babylon. Last quote they gave was T95.

[Swiss Pauli]

Diplo shenanigans:

From: Capac Mali
Date: 11 April 2010 21:21
Subject: Re: PAT Terms
To: England, Portugal, Carthage, Egypt, Maya & Babylon.

Dear All,

Mali says no to Rome, and no to India.

Kind Regards

Emperor Capac

On 11 April 2010 20:41, England wrote:
I think if we do this, it needs to be "India only, this is our last addition. Period."

On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Portugal wrote:
Hi everyone,

Thanks for including us in these discussions. I have spoken to some of you separately about this issue, but I would like to bring it up with the group. I know some of you would like to have Rome over India and a plan was floated to offer Rome tech parity so they could again take up some sort of military/funding role. I would just like to remind the group that this exact offer was made to Rome previously and they denied it as they hated alliances. They continue to refuse to play the gametype. We also recently made a concrete white peace offer that was denied until we replace their pillagers that we recently killed.

India is the only other team that has offered us concrete military support and before they were denied construction we had been discussing logistical arrangements with them sending HAs, catapults and axes. I know that some people have an opinion of India as free-loaders and perhaps even ourselves (we certainly haven't contributed as much tech wise as you would expect from Willem), but both India and us made substantial sacrifices of development whipping and chopping out armies to oppose the other alliance's apparent techers and military arms. It is also the apparent proposal that Rome become exactly this sort of free-loader.

CBE/Portgual's geo-political situation makes it imperative that India join with us, and I know based on the strength of our relationship (we are each other's strongest friend) that they would join if offered without hesitation. We remain at war with Rome and by proxy the Incans (they continue to gift axes to Rome). I am very doubtful that Rome would turn on the Incans or leave them out in the cold together with Byzantium. I also would not trust Rome to not start immediately working to split their new alliance as they said before that would be their only goal in joining CAN.

I hope that all of you take into consideration what I have said and reconsider any misgivings you may have about India. Please let me know your thoughts on the matter.

Mukha
CBE

From: Capac Mali
Date: 11 April 2010 21:24
Subject: India & PAT
To: Babylon & Maya


Hi Guys,

Portugal is too tight with India for my liking, so I said no to India joining to try to split them up.

I urge you to do likewise.

Cheers

[dsplaisted]

My micro tells me we should double-whip Blake on turn 91. We should end up on turn 92 with the worker finished (as well as the chariot and skirmisher), as well as 51 hammers total towards another unit. The food box should be at 13/24. With the other options we'd end up with more food in the box, but that is less valuable since we don't have very good tiles to work once we grow. I've switched the tile configuration at Blake to match the T91 double whip plan.

It's quite possible I screwed up my math somewhere, so if you have time you can verify my results below:

T91 whip (double)
T85: 13/26/+3 food, 27/30/+7 chariot, 11/25 Skirmisher
T86: 16/26/+3 food, chariot done, 11/25/+7/+4 Skirmisher
T87: 19/26/+3 food, 22/25/+7 Skirmisher
T88: 22/26/+3 food, Skirmisher done, 0/?/+7/+4 unit
T89: 25/26/+1 food, 11/?/+11 unit
T90: Size 4, 13/28 food, 22/? unit, 0/60/+12 ?? Worker
T91: 13/24 food, 22/? unit, double-whip worker, 12/60/+10/+60 Worker
T92: 13/24/+3 food, Worker completes with 22 overflow, 22/?/+7/+22=51 on unit

T90 whip (double)
T85: 13/26/+3 food, 27/30/+7 chariot, 11/25 Skirmisher
T86: 16/26/+3 food, chariot done, 11/25/+7/+4 Skirmisher
T87: 19/26/+3 food, 22/25/+7 Skirmisher
T88: 22/26/+4 food, Skirmisher done, 0/?/+3/+4 unit
T89: 13/28 food, 7/? unit, 0/60/+11/+1 Worker
T90: 13/24 food, 7/? unit, double-whip worker, 12/60/+7/+3/+60 Worker
T91: 13/24/+3 food, Worker completes with 22 overflow, 7/?/+7/+22=36 unit
T92: 16/24/+3 food, 36/?/+7=43 on unit

T91 whip (single)
T85: 13/26/+1 food, 27/30/+11 chariot, 11/25 Skirmisher
T86: 14/26/+1 food, chariot done, 11/25/+11/+8 Skirmisher
T87: 15/26 food, skirmisher done, 0/60/+11/+1/+5 Worker
T88: 15/26 food, 17/60/+11/+1 Worker
T89: 15/26 food, 29/60/+11/+1 Worker
T90: 15/26 food, 41/60/+11/+1 Worker
T91: 15/24 food, single-whip worker, 53/60/+7/+3/+30 Worker
T92: 15/24/+3 food, Worker completes with 33 overflow, 0/?/+7/+33=40 on unit

T90 whip (single)
T85: 13/26/+1 food, 27/30/+11 chariot, 11/25 Skirmisher
T86: 14/26/+1 food, chariot done, 11/25/+11/+8 Skirmisher
T87: 15/26 food, skirmisher done, 0/60/+11/+1/+5 Worker
T88: 15/26 food, 17/60/+11/+1 Worker
T89: 15/26 food, 29/60/+11/+1 Worker
T90: 15/24 food, single-whip worker, 41/60/+7/+3/+30 Worker
T91: 15/24/+3 food, Worker completes with 21 overflow, 0/?/+7/+21=28 on unit
T92: 18/24/+3 food, 28/?/+7=35 on unit

[Swiss Pauli]

Was hoping we'd be able to single whip on T89, but it seems we're 1 hammer short

We're due to get Metalcasting from Maya within a couple of turns, so if we go for the max overflow option (double whip T91) we could more or less complete a Mint with it.

Currency is due T92.

[Swiss Pauli]

T86 Report

Another unenventful turn, with workers going about their tasks unmolested by barbarian activity. The only barb to pop up was a warrior next to Ronnie. Assuming he doesn't suicide, we should be able to take him out without any trouble (seen sreenie below).

Maya completed MC, so I requested it from them. EPs reassigned to Rome. I'll update on the diplo situation tomorrow, but it there's a chance that India will miss out on some techs.

Big news of the turn: Gems has real food



Only question is where to put the city: 1 or 2 S of the gems. I probably favour one as more of a production commerce hybrid, whereas 2S would be commerce with some production. Thoughts?

[Broker33]

I prefer 1 S. Production is harder to find.

[dsplaisted]

Now that we have 1 hammer invested in a Chariot at Sticky fingers in case we need an emergency whip, I've switched back to a Library. If everything goes well I don't think we'll actually want to build a chariot in Sticky Fingers. Speak up if you disagree.

Should we switch to a Mint at Sirian? Is there any reason we're at 90% and not 100% research?