[Spoilers] Biggus Decius and the Sucking Vampires (Bobchillingworth / Calabim)

[DaveV]

Tried to send an email to Iskender via the email feature on his profile page:

Hi,
It's DaveV, the new turnplayer for the Calabim.

BobChillingworth and I have been worried about your civ as the biggest threat to us, and welcomed the email/chat where you expressed interest in peace. The next turn, though, you explored a lair after Bob explicitly said he'd take that as an act of war.

We were forced to conclude that you were planning on war with us, and decided to attack your civ before you had stacks of horse archers that could swoop in from the fog and kill our cities. As Bob told you, it would be better for both our civs to continue expansion and not have to pay support for large armies, but we have to defend ourselves.

I have declared war in-game, but also offered "white" peace, with no conditions. The "out of game" contitions attached to that peace are as follows:

1) Non aggression pact until turn 200. The Calabim will immediately withdraw their units, and neither side will declare war on the other for the specifed time.
2) The Hippus will not settle to the east of their two easternmost cities; the Calabim will not settle to the west of their westernmost city.
3) Neither side will explore any lair that is within 3 tiles of the other's borders.

I would be happy to go back to expansion mode, and would gladly have a long-term peace. I would also be happy to prosecute a war to the best of my abilities, if that's what it takes to protect my civ.

Please don't take this war declaration personally. I have nothing in particular against you or your civ, but am acting in what I believe to be the best interests of my civ.

DaveV

... and then I forgot to offer peace in game before ending my turn. Grrr and oops.

And the following PM:

Hi,

I sent you a long email via the email feature on your profile page; if you didn't recieve it, please reply to me at <censored> and I will resend.

DaveV

Here's a screenshot:

[DaveV]

I sent out a flurry of quick diplomatic messages to the other players.

To Pocketbeetle:

Hi,

Thanks for letting my scout move through your territory. I owe you a favor.

I declared war on the Hippus this turn, after several provocations on their part. Here's hoping for a short and successful conflict.

DaveV

To Cull:

[INDENT]Hi,

I declared war on the Hippus this turn. Bob and I consider ourselves the aggrieved party, although I'm sure Iskender would tell a different story.

I hope you and I can continue the cordial relations you apparently had with Bob.

DaveV
[/INDENT]

To Selrahc:

Greetings,

As you may have (or will soon) notice, the Calabim and Hippus are at war. We consider ourselves the aggreived party in this conflict, and hope that the Illians will continue to honor our non-aggression pact. Speaking of which: Bob was a little fuzzy on its duration - could you clarify the expiration date?

I would love to extend the NAP. I have no interest in your frozen wastelands.

DaveV

To Sareln:

Hi,

You probably noticed that I declared on the Hippus. I think Bob told you about their provocations; if not, suffice it to say that we consider ourselves justified in declaring war.

I hope I can continue the close cooperation you and Bob had to this point in the game.

DaveV

Edit: well, I guess I covered both possible spellings of "aggrieved".

[DaveV]

World's shortest war. Iskender's reply:

Hi Dave and Bob


I am ready to accept the offer under conditions you propose. However, as your words have not been followed by actions so far, I will require a small token of your good will. If you want to sign peace you need to destroy the road you have just built east of my city and accept your offer in-game instead of only proposing it.


Iskender

And my response:

Hi Iskender,

I'm glad to hear that we will have peace. I'm embarassed to admit that I was so busy cutting and pasting emails and screenshots into my lurker thread that I forgot to offer peace in the game before I passed the turn. I assure that my desire for peace is real, and I will accept peace if you offered it, and offer it if you did not. In either case, I will pillage the road as you requested.

Dave

[Bobchillingworth]

Heya! Finally got my internet here working & time to post- I typed up something larger earlier, but it got eaten by the forum. I'm still happy for you to keep playing the turns as long as you're willing btw, as I'd rather not have to instal Steam and Civ on my poor laptop at present.


I had a chat with Iskender at about the same time as you updated:

Rafal: i've sent a message to Dave
1:36 PM might as well post it here:
Hi Dave and Bob

I am ready to accept the offer under conditions you propose. However, as your words have not been followed by actions so far, I will require a small token of your good will. If you want to sign peace you need to destroy the road you have just built east of my city and accept your offer in-game instead of only proposing it.

Iskender
brb
1:37 PM me: heya
I think he forgot to propose last turn
1:38 PM as for the road, shouldn't be a problem, but since the connection will probably soon be covered by your culture, you don't want it?


14 minutes

1:52 PM Rafal: nope, i don't like roads. make hooves too soft
1:53 PM me: heh, okay
also, I'd like Sareln to be covered under the NAP
he's more or less the Calabim's vassal
it would be... awkward if you attacked him
Rafal: i didn't agree for that
1:54 PM if you station units in his cities i won't attack them
me: um
why not just not attack them at all
1:55 PM kind of silly for me to have to stick random units in his cities...
Rafal: because these three conditions pushed the envelope quite a bit already
1:56 PM i have no intentions to attack salern anyway
but i'd like to cover it by a separate agreement with him
1:57 PM me: Considering that he's under the protection of the calabim and that I think the terms of peace proposed are fairly generous given our relative power disparity, I'm hesitant to aquiencse to that
1:58 PM If you attack Sareln while our two civs still have an NAP, the calabim will be left with a difficult decision, and we have a very strong imperative to protect our investment in the Svaraltar
1:59 PM I personally don't see why you would bother with him anyway, and you've said yourself that you have no plans to, so I'm not sure why this would be an issue
Rafal: let me reiterate: i have no intentions to attack svartalfar, quite the contrary. however, i wish to discuss relations between me and them with salern
2:01 PM me: okay, but be forwarned that he is under my protection- and that I believe his civ is out of favors to grant
2:04 PM Rafal: fair enough

So, looks like it was a pretty short war I personally think we could have taken him, but it would have been costly.


I would take tech off of Construction and move back for Sanitation or HBR -> Trade, since I think we're out of enemies for the time being. There's now enough bloodpets lying around to safely surround and explore the remaining lairs around us, so I'd use them for that. You also probably want to redirect a few to go take the barb city. I would also encourage Sareln to expand westward toward Iskender- that's where I agreed with him he should settle anyway, and that neatly allows us to neatly circumvent the "no further settling west" clause by having an ally seize the land instead. If Iskender decides to attack Sareln, I personally would consider the NAP void- I tried to warn Iskender about that in the chat. Your call though.

[DaveV]

I would take tech off of Construction and move back for Sanitation or HBR -> Trade, since I think we're out of enemies for the time being.

It may still be better to do Construction first, since it will make Sanitation cheaper (and allow irrigation spam, and bridges).

There's now enough bloodpets lying around to safely surround and explore the remaining lairs around us, so I'd use them for that.

My thoughts exactly.

I would also encourage Sareln to expand westward toward Iskender- that's where I agreed with him he should settle anyway, and that neatly allows us to neatly circumvent the "no further settling west" clause by having an ally seize the land instead. If Iskender decides to attack Sareln, I personally would consider the NAP void- I tried to warn Iskender about that in the chat. Your call though.

Yeah, I didn't want to push too hard. If he hadn't taken peace here, the price for peace would have gone up as I pillaged his land and researched toward catapults. I think this was the ideal outcome: I got what I wanted, which is a long-term peace and a chance to fill up all that yummy space to the east and keep researching. And I avoided a long and costly war.

I'll bet he doesn't want roads in his borders, with two raider civs as neighbors . My workers would have built a lot of them, though, which he would have been unable to pillage. That's a flaw in Civ4 in general and FfH in particular: your own roads can be used against you, and you have no way of removing them.

[DaveV]

More diplo messages. From Pocketbeetle:

Hi DaveV,

Not a problem at all, happy to help.

Care to elaborate on the ‘provocations’?
The Hippus are not that far away from me also, so any information is welcome.

Regards,
Pb, Innocent Boy-King.

My response:

The provocations: twice, Iskender explored lairs very close to our borders. The first time, Bob asked him nicely nicely not to explore it. Iskender essentially said "you can't stop me", and explored it. The second time, Bob said we would consider an act of war if he explored it, and Iskender did anyway.

To pay back that favor I mentioned before: I signed a long-term non-aggression pact with Iskender. During a chat with Bob, Iskender said he has no interest in attacking Sareln. That leaves you or Cull as his likely targets; from what I know of the map layout, I'd consider you much more likely as a target. So, beware!

DaveV, disgraced former hero of the Bannor

[DaveV]

So, he's popped his world spell. Two possiblities: he's really that scared of me, or he's playing me for a sucker. I'll act as if it's the former.

[DaveV]

More diplo messages. To Pocketbeetle:

The Hippus have used their world spell. As Iskender and I had already agreed, I offered him a peace treaty on my turn. If he accepts peace, he has a safe front with me, and a bunch of units with a military promotion that wears off over time. I'm not sure how your defenses stand, but I'd suggest you do what you can to improve them over the next turn or two.

To Iskender:

I have offered peace. I will pillage the road after you accept.

One possiblity is that Iskender was already planning to attack Pocketbeetle, and my peace offer fell into his lap. It doesn't make much sense for him to renege on our agreement; his units are roughly equivalent to mine with Warcry, and that promotion may disappear when he needs it most. If he's about to bring bronze online, he'll have a strength advantage, but I have better numbers. I guess I'll see what happens over the coming turn: exciting times!

[Bobchillingworth]

Haha, what the heck is he doing with that worldspell?! He probably wouldn't need it to hold the city if he thought you were being insincere with the peace proposal, and he must be aware that a bunch of warriors are hardly sufficient to take on the Calabim.


If he makes peace, I think the war was a total success- you got the NAP security, had him waste his stupid worldspell, and made it clear to everyone that the Calabim don't screw around



Also poor Cull. Really no one else for the vampires to sate their blood-thirst on at this point. I... don't think that he will be missed

[Bobchillingworth]

Iskender sent me a brief chat to say that he accepted the peace offer. I asked him why he used the worldspell, but he said that we would just have to read his thread after the game is over. I think your money is right on a PB invasion. I also think you're doing entirely the right thing by giving PB advance warning; his score is terrifying, but he's never going to be a real military threat, and there's many ways to stop him if he gets too close to a culture win.


Also got this email from Sareln:

I just had 4 combat 1 barbarian warriors and 1 unpromoted lizardman
step out of the fog near Schwartzwald. If it gets burnt, you know
why. Also, 3 turns left on FoL, I may sandbag it until after the
situation down south is resolved. Hunting Lodge is 2 turns from
finish, and I got the free hunter event (would you like to buy a
hunter for 29 gold? Yes, yes I would thankyouverymuch).

-Sareln-

Sucks for him, with no advance warning or OB it's impossible for you to reinforce him. You might have to recapture and re-gift the city (I've never seen FFH barbs raze, outside of autorazing). On the bright side, sounds like the time is ripe to attack that barb city, now that the garrison is all but emptied!



Oh and hey, let me know if you think this "dual diplomacy" thing is going to be too much of a headache. I'd like to help however I can as an active partipant in the game, but if you have everything well in-hand, I don't want to screw things up by slowing down or confusing the diplomacy.