WW16: The Outlaws and The Olives

[Catwalk]

This suspicion is not a matter of being annoyed at all, it's just scum hunting. As I said, any case I may make on you hinges on Azza being scum. And I think you're still being inconsistent:

See, I knew you were going to jump on that inconsistency and I posted the list anyway. It was other suspects bubbling towards villager that dragged Azza down on that list, not anything Azza did.

That's an awful lot of villager tells you have. As you point out above, you've been defending Azza for days and shown little to no interest in seeing him hang. That makes me massively surprised to see him below pindicator, Ichabod, Jkaen, Selrahc, Lewwyn and Molach.

And yes I adjusted my list in the next post based on further evidence gathering. So what, if I may ask? Is that scummy now?

Either that, or you realized that you'd better shore up an inconsistency. The shifted position seems to be based on Azza arguing that he knew all along that Tasunke was innocent and pointed to a villagery post by him. It's easy to know who's innocent when you're scum, and that makes it easy to point to villagery posts to make yourself look good. There was a lot of momentum on Tasunke (seemingly independent of scum), so this was a free lunch and a good way for scum to gain town cred. Moreover, considering Azza hasn't been contributing all that much he might feel confident that he wasn't going to switch anyone off of Tasunke.

I wasn't looking for vote switches then, I wanted to test the judgement of the people who had been pushing Azza all day by seeing Azza flip.

So why didn't you just stick with your own conviction on Tasunke? You're distancing yourself massively from hanging Tasunke by making this statement, saying that you felt like trusting other people's judgement even though Azza was a lowly #5 on your suspect list at the time.

I've been defending Azza for days now, it's a little late to start distancing, don't you think?

No, not too late at all. If (as scum) you felt that the suspicion on Azza was mounting and he was at real risk of hanging now (or more likely later), it makes good sense (as scum) to gradually change your perspective on him rather than going 180 when he's doomed.

And are you seriously saying that my last minute vote on Azza was an attempt to save him? (Or did you think it was a bus attempt, as if such a vote would gain me any credit, and as if a wolf me would have any need to bus any more teammates?)

Neither. I think you had a close tab on votes (I think scum generally have a much better overview of votes) and knew that switching to Azza wouldn't hang him. It took an additional 2 vote switches, and I didn't even manage to get mine switched on time. I do think hanging Azza would gain you credit, and I also think that your town cred has been fading.

You're just jumping at shadows. I get that you're annoyed at the lynch but don't take it out on me. The village consists of four scum and eleven confused villagers, so it's really unfair to blame a close vote on me.

Not in the least, and I think it's unlike you to use a mixture of ridicule, pity and sympathy for my sad misguidedness to defend yourself. I do blame the close vote on you, specifically because you have/had a strong following and the second vote matters much more in terms of traction than the first one. So I blame you more than I blame Ichabod, yes. Again, all of this hinges on Azza being scum. If he flips innocent, my entire theory falls apart and I will retract it.

[novice]

This is just ludicrous Catwalk. Here is the vote tally I was looking on when I decided to vote Azza. You can read along from http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...post299929

Azza...

Selrahc's suicidal play doesn't make sense...

Unofficial Lynch Vote Count

Meiz - 4 - Azza, tasunke, Gaspar, Twinkletoes89
Azza - 4 - Catwalk, Lewwyn, Injera, Meiz
Selrahc - 3 - Waterbat, Molach, Jkaen
Tasunke - 4 - Ichabod, novice, Selrahc, Pindicator
Players not voting: None

Catwalk, Tasunke's been on the block already today so he's not a new candidate.

Anyone got a tally? Not too late to hang Azza!

Those are three posts in a row. I then vote Azza, crossposting with a bunch of other people.

[Catwalk]

Alright, let me try one vote at a time:

Meiz - 4 - Azza, tasunke, Gaspar, Twinkletoes89
Azza - 4 - Catwalk, Lewwyn, Injera, Meiz
Selrahc - 3 - Waterbat, Molach, Jkaen
Tasunke - 4 - Ichabod, novice, Selrahc, Pindicator

2913: Injera votes Tasunke at 23:58

Meiz - 4 - Azza, tasunke, Gaspar, Twinkletoes89
Azza - 3 - Catwalk, Lewwyn, Meiz
Selrahc - 3 - Waterbat, Molach, Jkaen
Tasunke - 5 - Ichabod, novice, Selrahc, Pindicator, Injera

2914: Ichabod votes Meiz at 23:58

Meiz - 5 - Azza, tasunke, Gaspar, Twinkletoes89, Ichabod
Azza - 3 - Catwalk, Lewwyn, Meiz
Selrahc - 3 - Waterbat, Molach, Jkaen
Tasunke - 4 - novice, Selrahc, Pindicator, Injera

2916: waterbat votes Tasunke at 23:59

Meiz - 5 - Azza, tasunke, Gaspar, Twinkletoes89, Ichabod
Azza - 3 - Catwalk, Lewwyn, Meiz
Selrahc - 2 - Molach, Jkaen
Tasunke - 5 - novice, Selrahc, Pindicator, Injera, waterbat

2917: novice votes Azza at 23:59

Meiz - 5 - Azza, tasunke, Gaspar, Twinkletoes89, Ichabod
Azza - 4 - Catwalk, Lewwyn, Meiz, novice
Selrahc - 2 - Molach, Jkaen
Tasunke - 4 - Selrahc, Pindicator, Injera, waterbat

2918: Catwalk votes Tasunke at 23:59

Meiz - 5 - Azza, tasunke, Gaspar, Twinkletoes89, Ichabod
Azza - 3 - Lewwyn, Meiz, novice
Selrahc - 2 - Molach, Jkaen
Tasunke - 5 - Selrahc, Pindicator, Injera, waterbat, Catwalk

Which is the final tally. You voted Azza with seconds to spare, and he was still one short had I not switched away from Tasunke.

I think you were quite deliberate in switching this late, suggested by your comments earlier. And I think you were keeping a close eye on the lynch. Are you telling me you didn't click preview before a 1-word vote to see if anyone else switched? And again, this flurry of switching was triggered by you and Ichabod bringing Tasunke up from zero votes with minutes to spare. It seems deliberate to me. This level of confusion helps scum more than the town IMO, and it was triggered by the wagon on Tasunke.

And again, you somehow feel the need to call me ludicrous in order to discount my accusation. I don't think it's pro-town to try to bully other players into seeing the light of your wisdom, it's in the town's interest to turn every stone. No need to discourage that, especially since it's night and there isn't much discussion being derailed.

[Catwalk]

I want to stress one point: Why did you start a bandwagon on Tasunke (who had zero votes) with 7 minutes to spare (passing on Selrahc and Azza, both alternatives if you wanted to save Meiz) then decide a few minutes later that Azza was a better choice than Tasunke? Did you suddenly start doubting your own judgement, which had led to defending Azza for days? I don't understand this supposed test you wanted to make.

It'd make more sense to me to either go for Selrahc or Azza right away. You were ultimately willing to vote Azza at deadline when other options were available, so you can't have been terribly convinced of Azza's innocence when Ichabod voted Tasunke. It was not a vote out of necessity. You could also have stuck with Selrahc. He was actually in the lead when the Tasunke bandwagon started, and I'd stated that I'd move to Selrahc if necessary to save Meiz. Both of those gave an opportunity to consolidate votes (or Meiz, whom we both felt was a bad lynch). You chose the 4th option to start a new bandwagon instead. I still don't think it makes sense.

[novice]

And again, you somehow feel the need to call me ludicrous in order to discount my accusation. I don't think it's pro-town to try to bully other players into seeing the light of your wisdom, it's in the town's interest to turn every stone. No need to discourage that, especially since it's night and there isn't much discussion being derailed.

It is ludicrous. I'm not going to get into a quote war with you over this, it will just be spamming the thread and it's long enough as it is. (Analyzing the sequence of 10 cross-posted votes - that's spam.) The reason I come across as defensive today is that I resent your blaming me for the bad lynch yesterday. It's also intensely annoying that I do my best to look forward and keep on hunting scum, just to have you latch on to my defensiveness and derail the thread into being about me, since I know that's a dead end. Hence my forceful attempt to dismiss you.

I want to stress one point: Why did you start a bandwagon on Tasunke (who had zero votes) with 7 minutes to spare (passing on Selrahc and Azza, both alternatives if you wanted to save Meiz) then decide a few minutes later that Azza was a better choice than Tasunke? Did you suddenly start doubting your own judgement, which had led to defending Azza for days?

I did second-guess myself, yes. As usual I wasn't happy with our final band of suspects on the block, and for the record I was voting Waterbat. Ichabod started the final Tasunke wagon and I suppose I felt obligated to go along with it, with me being the only one voting Waterbat.

And yes it all ended in a villager mislynch but I think it was always going to.

[Twinkletoes89]

You guys really know how to fuck up the enjoyment of a game by being clueless

Noone for a second thought that maybe switching votes around with seconds to go was maybe a really easy way for mafia to get a mislynch?

Its total bollocks and its really pissed me off.

If I die, I think that the remaining wolves are Novice, Meiz, Injera and one of Selrahc/Molach

[Catwalk]

But this is not about you at all. It's an argument for why we have another reason to hang Azza now, namely that his guilt strongly would strongly implicate you. If he flips innocent, my case against you disappears. How do you feel about hanging Azza tomorrow?

[Meiz]

You guys really know how to fuck up the enjoyment of a game by being clueless

Noone for a second thought that maybe switching votes around with seconds to go was maybe a really easy way for mafia to get a mislynch?

Its total bollocks and its really pissed me off.

I try to take this games light hearted, but frankly it's your attitude that is pissing me off at the moment. You were about to lynch a villager as well (yes, you can't know that if you're a villager), but your high-and-mighty attitude and calling others idiots is just plain rude. I'd think you'd learned from the previous games that you make bad calls as well, but apparently you're blind to it.

[Catwalk]

I agree with TT being out of line, tone it down please. Not only for sake of being nice, but because the players you're calling idiots might be crafty wolves. In which case they aren't idiots at all.

[Azza]

But this is not about you at all. It's an argument for why we have another reason to hang Azza now, namely that his guilt strongly would strongly implicate you. If he flips innocent, my case against you disappears. How do you feel about hanging Azza tomorrow?

I feel it's an absolutely awful idea that will teach us nothing about who is scum, and merely confirm that I am, and always have been, a villager.