Adventure 23 (First Report)

[VoiceOfUnreason]

I am very confused about your comment that "when you whip it, it starts full". I thought that Granaries started on empty and gained food every turn equal to the amount of that city's food surplus. In addition to that, it is capped at 1/2 the food required to grow to the next size.

Granaries do start empty. Look carefully at what the pictures are saying.

On turn 47, the food box is at 8/28 (I'm making the assumption of normal speed here. 5 turns at 4 surplus is 20, and it takes 2 * ( 10 + pop ) to grow.)

We whip down to pop 2 (8/24 in the food bin), where we are now running at a 6 food surplus. So on turn 48, we'll be at 14/24, then 22/24 on turn 49. Everything is adding up, and seems to correspond to the pictures. So when we grow, we have 4 surplus food (the overflow from the 6 surplus), plus 12 more from the granary. So we're at 16/26, or thereabouts. The granary has 13 food stored in it, but won't acquire any more until Delhi grows another size.

In other words, the granary started empty, and gained food every turn equal to the amount of that city's food surplus, until it hit the cap.

[Atlas]

Granaries do start empty. Look carefully at what the pictures are saying. In other words, the granary started empty, and gained food every turn equal to the amount of that city's food surplus, until it hit the cap.

Did the overflow of food from the whip not fill it up?

There is no "free" food from whipping a granary or anything else, what is gained is time spent filling the darn thing b/c of food overflow and the rapidity at which the food bar fills at low pop. levels with a high food tile.

Is that not correct?

[darrelljs]

Atlas,

Well, there really isn't any overflow of food from the whip. In this example you just happened to have a large food surplus for a very small population, and hence by the time the city grew another size you had already filled the Granary. This won't happen all the time, although it is true that whipping Granaries is always optimal. From a city growth standpoint. Presuming you work your highest food tiles.

All absolute statements should come with a provisio or two .

Darrell

[Atlas]

Well, there really isn't any overflow of food from the whip.

Not in the typical sense (like whip overflow), I think I have a problem with writing clearly . The food surplus jumps post whip (since you still work the high food tile, but got rid of those lazy bums working 2 food tiles) and since the food is carried over as the city grows you will almost always get that sucker past the half way point. Overflow was the wrong word.

In this example you just happened to have a large food surplus for a very small population, and hence by the time the city grew another size you had already filled the Granary. This won't happen all the time, although it is true that whipping Granaries is always optimal. From a city growth standpoint. Presuming you work your highest food tiles.

Yep, this will not work well if all you have in your city is a plains hill sheep or plains cow. But with high food tiles this is highly effective and easily duplicatable with corn, irrigated wheat/rice, fish or the combo of 2 lesser food tiles. The key being high surplus food from working a minimum of tiles

Basically all I am saying is that if you have a good food tile you get your granary filled in single turn post whip by the food surplus that now exists being so large b/c the food surplus is relatively larger and the food box is relatively smaller.

All absolute statements should come with a provisio or two

true enough, if only I could remember that

I seem to have really stepped in it in this thread with simultaneous debates going on with you, VoU, and soooo , that means I will probably lose

Edit: It would not be an Epic/Adventure if we did not turn someone's report thread into a multi page discussion about something . Sorry Muaziz

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Basically all I am saying is that if you have a good food tile you get your granary filled in single turn post whip by the food surplus that now exists being so large b/c the food surplus is relatively larger and the food box is relatively smaller.

I get that you are saying that. It's still a false statement, that happens to appear to be true in this example because of an accident in the timing of the whip.

In this case, the whip dropped the box to 8/24, leaving 16 surplus food to be accumulated before the next growth. Thus, the granary had time to fill up before the food box rolled over, so it "appeared" to be full right away.

If instead the exercise had begun with the food box at 24/28. You whip, and the food box is at 24/24. The two farm tiles are worked, producing a 6 food surplus again, and on the next turn the food box is at 12 food (6 for the surplus and 6 in the granary) instead of the 18 food you would have if the granary had been full immediately.

[disclaimer: try the experiment - I'm reciting this from memory, it's been a while since I've reviewed the exact timing of the construction of the building, filling of the granary, and the population rollover mechanics.]

To the best of my knowledge, the surplus in the food box is not relevant to the granary. For example, run this same experiment again when the food box is at 27/28. When you whip, you are at 27/24. The same 6 food surplus takes you to 33/24, the population rollover takes you to 9/26, and the food stored in the granary on the last turn takes you to 15/26. A full granary, in the same circumstances, would take you to 21/26.

In order to get the full effect of a granary in a single turn at size two, you would need a pair of 7F tiles to work.