RB Pitboss #1 [SPOILERS] Willem of Persia

[shadyforce]

This picture shows a few things:
- Cincinnati which started on a plains hill and has a flood plain beside it.
- What regoarrarr has dubbed 'John Nolan Fjord'.
- Evidence that regoarrarr's isthmuth is not the only connection between the north and south segments, but this is to be confirmed. The sea body is already too big to be a fresh water lake, so it could still be enclosed.
- A nice fish/cow city location near India but which is cut off from them by the little inlet thing.
- My first barb encounter. I'd like to earn a woodsman promotion asap before stronger barbs appear and the Noble free barb wins run out.
- Also, the score board on the right with me winning! I'll enjoy it while it lasts.


I'm clear first in hammers. But I'm not last in food. I assume the dude who is still on size 1 and is working the forest/plains/hill tile is last.

The population ranking is interesting. I have a question for the lurkers. I know from the scores that 5 people are still on size 1 and 6 have grown to size 2. But my demog score is 6th. Does that mean, for example, that if 3 people are tied for first they will all show up as 3rd? Does that apply for all the different categories?

I'm last in land area, joint with at least one other person. This means that no one started with more water tiles than I did. I'll guess that our category leader started with 0 water tiles because of his 21k score?

Also, the life expectency average is rather high. We do have 3 expansive civs, but I suspect that that's not the whole story. I'll bet that everyone started with loads of forests in their start, which somewhat backs up by guess that this is a fairly boreal map.

[shadyforce]

Turn 15:
Work boat complete. Warrior has 3 shields left. I agonise over which tiles to work, whether to have a shield overflow, to put some food in the store or get a few extra beakers. In the end I put work the Ivory and grass forest because I think 2 extra food lets me whip another work boat on turn 30 instead of turn 31. (My god, look what this game has done to me.)

In other news, Justin Specting got a whack from that vicious panther. I moved it to the coast on a forest tile behind a river where it will soend 3 turns healing. 3 turns is normally nothing but in a game like this where 3 turns is about a real life day, it can be frustrating not gathering any map info. But at least I'll have my warrior out next turn.

Also, my spiritual neighbour to the north has adopted slavery. My Bronze Working research will be done in 10 turns, same turn as my worker.

[Sullla]

The population ranking is interesting. I have a question for the lurkers. I know from the scores that 5 people are still on size 1 and 6 have grown to size 2. But my demog score is 6th. Does that mean, for example, that if 3 people are tied for first they will all show up as 3rd? Does that apply for all the different categories?

Yes, it's exactly as you described. If three people are all tied for first place, they will all show up as third in the Demographics. This is very silly, and counter to the way everyone does rankings in real life, but that's how the game does it.

[shadyforce]

Thanks. How strange. I wonder why but I'll hazard a guess that for some reason or another, it was marginally easier to code that the ranking number is the lowest rather than highest or middle and they just left it that way.

Turn 16:
My warrior (named Belkar) is finished and research is switched to a worker, due the same turn as Bronze Working. Belkar heads south west to reveal fog off the coast in case there are more seafood resources there. My scout is still healing.

Turn 18:
After 2 turns of healing, my scout is on 1.0 out of 1 health, but still has a turn left of healing to do. I assume that's some rounding error on actual health versus displayed health. I decide that 1.0 is close enough to full health and he continues exploring the nearby fog. (Actually, I can tell from the combat log that he was hurt down to 76 hit points in the barbarian encounter so he must be on 0.96 health now.)

Turn 19:
More contact!

Belkar encounters an unnamed exploring warrior belonging to ZPV (Washington/Carthage). I've sent off a greeting email.

But there is a slight problem. My capital is undefended and I don't know ZPV well enough to evaluate the probability of an opportunistic attack on my undefended capital. In my favour is that he can't see that it is undefended until he reaches the jungle hill NW of my capital, but that is surely going to be his exploration route unless I can deflect him.

My options are:
1. Ignore the situation and hope for the best.
2. Switch to max production and build a worker in 3 turns (shown in the screen shot).
3. Move my warrior back towards my capital.
4. Tell ZPV that India is due north and hope he goes there to meet him (they haven't met yet).
5. Bribe ZPV with the location of India to not go any further East.

After some thought, I realised that I don't need to commit to building a warrior just yet so I switched production back to worker and ended my turn.

[shadyforce]

Turn 20:
I send a message to DVP informing him of a lack of nearby land-bridge to southern Mali territory and pointing him in the direction of India. I continue with the Worker build and my warrior also continues checking the nearby coast, and I hope for the best regarding an attack.

Turn 21:
DPV has moved his warrior towards my city still. I panic a little and again consider switching to a warrior build but DPV is online at the time and sends me a message telling me that he isn't planning on attacking my city, he just wants to map along the coast to my city for trade route reasons. I decide to trust him and continue with my worker build. Meanwhile my scout finished mapping the grassland north of my capital and intends to head west into the fog. And my warrior is going to head to the jungle peninsula that is north-east of Central Command. He won't go far as I'll need him to escort my first settler.

Turn 22:
regoarrarr and I get into more serious discussion about trading tech and NAP. I am pretty upfront about my reluctance to sign an NAP without border issues being solved. My concern is that my primary early expansion is going to be in the area between our cities, whereas he can head south or north and I would like him to go north as much as possible. Negotiations are ongoing, but we really need more map info. Plus, he knows where the copper is and I don't yet.

Turn 23:
My trust in DVP was well placed as he now moves away from my capital. He seems to be heading around it and may end up with visibility into the city, but I will have the safety net of slavery by then. A Malinese explorer has gone to the tip of his island which can see my cultural borders and thus has made contact with Persia. Just a turn or two ago I asked ZPV to pass on that info to him. Maybe he did, or maybe dsp was scouting that way anyway. I'm not sure. Meanwhile, my scout, while heading to the west, has encourntered an Indian exploring warrior mapping out the area south of his capital.

Turn 24:
All's quiet. More scouting.

Status:

Worker and Bronze Working and my next border pop are all due next turn. Animal Husbandry and a Work Boat are next and I'll also be revolting to Slavery immediately. I'm undecided about whether Justin Specting should hug the coast or head up towards India and scout around up there. Belkar the warrior will do a little scouting but will stay nearby. I'll have a workboat out soon and I also have to decide whether to head straight west and get the Magellan bonus asap or head north to contact Zulu. Or south to reveal a trade route to Mali territory. (Maybe that can wait since I'll need sailing anyway.)

Diplomacy:

ZPV has been friendly so far and I've only just met Mali. But India is the main concern. I initially thought a friendly neighbour would be good, but in reality he is expanding into the same area I am, and I don't have any other direct threats while he does. I am curious what the situation with Imhotep is. He seems to be set up for an early rush and that would make India his primary target (unless there are more people to the north). That gives me the choice of giving India a peaceful southern border or joining the bandwagon and getting rid of my main competitor in terms of early land.

The fact that India is surrounded by civs that have early rush UUs must make him uncomfortable. Perhaps that is what I am hoping for when I push a little in diplomacy. I have told him I can guarantee peace if he doesn't settle further south than his capital. But if he does settle south then negotiations are required and I won't sign any NAP. Maybe I'm being a little pushy but I really want my ensure I have enough land to be competitive in this game, not be sqaushed into a little corner and going nowhere because I'm afraid to declare or I've signed some stupid NAP.

We'll exchange a few more messages before I'll really know what his intentions are. His reasons to settle south could be any of:
- Imhotep is not a threat, he has guaranteed northern territory and wants to take what he can south before I get it.
- He has copper just south of his city but not north.
- His land to the north is poor.
- He wants some cities as a buffer so his capital is not on the front line.
- On principle, he doesn't want to get cheated out of land he feels he should be able to have cince it's close to his capital.

I think I need to meet Imhotep asap and see what the situation is. I assume regoarrarr is doing as much as he can diplomatically to try and get him on his side. But geography is not in his favour. If his first city is closer to me than his capital is, then I am still seriously considering an early rush.

[shadyforce]

Turn 25:
Bronze Working in. Research set to Animal Husbandry.
Worker finished. Started building Camp. Work Boat queued up.
Revolted to Slavery.
There is no copper anywhere to be seen, not near me and not in the revealed tiles near India. This is quite a setback. India or indeed any opponent is sure to field plenty of spears since my Unique Unit is mounted, and I lack the ability to build the natural counter to them. At least until Iron Working. No early rush then so.

Edit: Added screenshot:

[shadyforce]

Turns 26-28:
All is quiet. Work Boat is being built as city grows. Belkar continues to move north-east to the fog on the jungle peninsula. Justin Specting continues west and sights some coast suggesting that there isn't as much land to the west as I originally thought. I'll post a screenie in a turn or two when I reveal more of that coast. Chef the worker has completed the camp. My Financial powered Ivory and Fish tiles have made me #1 in GNP. My other ranks are not so hot although 6th in power with a slightly above average score is acceptable.

[shadyforce]

Turn 29:
Central Command has 17/24 food in the box. The Work Boat is whipped and the city will grow to size 2 again next turn where it will start a Settler. Chef moves onto the forest hill tile on the river. Justin Specting contines to explore in the west and the warrior moves further into 'Jungle Peninsula'. Maybe if I'm lucky, I'll find copper in here.

Diplomacy:
Mali wants to trade demographic info on India for info on ZPV. I have no great utility in this deal but it doesn't cost me anything either. Callculating exact figures from uncalibrated graphs will require a bit of work but it will do me good to learn how to do it as the information might prove valuable.

Negotiations continue with India over city sites and territory boundaries in order to avoid a conflict. His last message was rather positive and I've made a more specific proposal. I don't normally copy message here because there are lots, mostly with diplomatic fluff, and with 10 rivals, the amount is only going to increase. But I'll post the last 2 messages (unimportant bits snipped):

... I was realizing that I never responded to your comment about where the copper and horses were. Though I see from F4 that you are now in Slavery, so I assume that you have an idea on the copper anyways. You have probably explored a bit more than me, but the only copper that I have seen is 8 tiles to the southwest of Cincinnati, and, judging from the directions that you gave me in your last email, 22 tiles from your capital.

Have you seen any copper closer to you than this one? I am hoping that you have, and that we won't have to fight over this one. It does seem significantly closer to my sphere of influence than yours, though I of course am biased :-).

As for horses, I have not yet discovered Animal Husbandry, so I don't know where any might be. I don't know if you have found horses, though given your UU, I am assuming that if you haven't researched it yet, you probably will before too long.

I am hoping that settling to claim this copper will not be considered an "aggressive settlement" and provoke a hostile reaction. I am interested in working with you and finding a good and natural border between us (and ZPV I guess).

One interesting thing that I discovered when my capital's borders popped a few turns ago, is that the John Nolan Fjord where we first met is not the coast but in fact appears to be part of a big lake. There is a lot more land over there to your north (my east) that would seem to be near both of our spheres of influence. I am not sure where Justin Inspecting went after we met again a few turns ago, but it might bear checking out. If you would like to coordinate scouting, let me know.

Again, I hesitated to even bring all this up, because I fear that you will not like my settling in the south, but, as I have said before, I believe that talking about things like this is much better than one or the both of us just making unilateral decisions without talking.

I hope to hear from you soon

--------------------

... Justin Specting passed by that connecting land but I assumed was just a peninsula at the time. I didn't try to go up it because it was full of jungle/forest at the southern entrance and I wanted to head towards my city. But I'm surprised to hear that your capital is founded on a John Nolan Lake rather than a John Nolan Fjord. I wonder is it even big enough to build galleys on (not that you'd really need to). Incidentally, that isthmus to your east is 3 tiles wide at the southern edge before it hits the real coast. (If you build 3 forts does that make a canal? Or can canal's be only 1 tile wide?)

Unfortunately, there is no other copper in the area between us. There is some fog to the north east of my capital I have not yet explored and there may be some there, but probably not. As for horses... are you telling me your C&D department does not know whether I know Animal Husbandry or not yet? Tsk tsk. I don't know it yet. I will soon. Although despite of my unique unit, copper is still much more valuable than horses (Spear beats any horse unit, nothing beats any copper unit until Crossbows). Is there any copper to the north of you?

Justin Specting has found coast while travelling west towards Carthage. The relevant coast tile is 11 south, 3 west of Cincinnati. It, along with the 2-tile lake, the peak beside the river and that inlet thing your capital is built on the mouth of, represents the closest thing I can see to a natural land boundary. There is a fair chunk of land behind that line, including the copper. Everything east and south-east of that line would be mine and the land south of the line would probably be contested with Carthage.

The one problem is the cow site east of Cincinnati. I know you liked the idea of a city there, presumably because the cow will soon be in your culture (I originally thought because copper was there!) but it doesn't really fit with the north-west/south-east geographic boundary I outlines above. <snip> It's near your capital as the crow flies, but it would be geographically isolated because of that inlet thing.

Anyway, let me know what you think. I still have to find Carthage to establish how close they actually are.

[shadyforce]

Turn 30:
Elcano the Work Boat is complete and starts heading east.
Central Command starts a Settler.
Chef starts chopping the forest on the hill (the one beside the river.)
Justin Specting and Belkar continue to explore.

[shadyforce]

Here is a proposed dotmap of core cities. Things may change when I reveal horses and/or iron.

Green is my favourite site because if will be a pretty good production centre. Though it may also change depending on what's under the fog. I really should have checked that out before Justin Specting went south-west. Red will be a good commerce city. The rest are ok cities except white which is just a filler. I am very low on production which is why Green and my capital are quite important.

I'm not very happy with this attempt though. There is a lot of wastage. There must be a beter way to fit cities into the given area. But the amount and location of food resources makes things awkward.

Negotiations are still ongoing with India. Perhaps regoarrarr is posting all the messages in his thread which saves me from having to. If not and if my summaries are not sufficient to describe what's going on and any lurkers really want to see them then let me know and I'll post them.

My thoughts? Well, I'm assuming that regoarrarr is negotiating in good faith for the most part. It could be a big ploy to distract me while he prepares a rush or an Indian/Zulu/Carthage alliance against me or things like that. But worrying about stuff like that is a good route to madness.

I believe he wants peace with me. I believe he's playing down the quality and amount of land to his north. I also believe he's playing down the amount of scouting he has done, perhaps trying to catch me in a lie or as a negotiating tool.

A lack of copper is a real kick in the teeth because any early rush of mine is going to be lacking teeth, especially with India handed spears on a plate. And the worst part is that India knows that. I'm not going to try and second guess the mapmaker because there may or may not be horse nearby and they may or may not be iron nearby. I'll just play the hand I'm dealt.