RBP3 - [SPOILERS] - Team DIM (Mehmed of HRE)

[dazedroyalty]

I actually went through and looked at all those maps... there's a number I haven't ever played on before. I'm excited to see what Sullla's got for us. I'm banking on the double river gold start! :neenernee

[dazedroyalty]

Here's our start:



First, he gave us silver!

Then he put it under a jungle so we can't hook it up right away...

It'd be nice if the wheat and sheep were swapped so we could get the fresh water bonus. Oh well. I think we should move the scout onto one of the hills (NE NE, N NW, W W, or SW S). Personally I vote for NE NE.

Unless we see something unusual, I say settling in spot will be good. Hill for added bonus, two food resources in the immediate surrounding tiles. If we settle in spot, we get six hill tiles. Looks like three plain hills and three grassland hills. The only benefit of moving (besides unknown bonuses) might be to get more hills into play if we want a hammer captiol.

[dazedroyalty]

We'll be working the sheep if we settle in place which is 2/1/1. So it will take 15 turns to build a warrior.

Research wise: farming (108 beakers) is the first worker tech, then AH (180 pre bonus). Since farming gives a bonus towards AH I think that order makes sense. Mining will be 90 beakers and BW is 216.

[Ilios]

We'll be working the sheep if we settle in place which is 2/1/1. So it will take 15 turns to build a warrior.

Research wise: farming (108 beakers) is the first worker tech, then AH (180 pre bonus). Since farming gives a bonus towards AH I think that order makes sense. Mining will be 90 beakers and BW is 216.

Good morning!

That's quite the start, I like it. I'm thinking founding in the spot as well. I'll have a look at the game to see where we can move the scout. I can see at least 11 forests in our BFC, so I'd rather go Agr > Min > BW

Re the warrior, I would like to mico our growth until the warriors is 2 turn from completion when working the plains forest hill. That way we can start the worker at size two, and can switch to the warrior for emergencies.

[dazedroyalty]

Re the warrior, I would like to mico our growth until the warriors is 2 turn from completion when working the plains forest hill. That way we can start the worker at size two, and can switch to the warrior for emergencies.

That sounds good. Feel free to play the turn as soon as Meatbalz chimes in. I will be asleep for a little while. If you haven't played in the next 8-10 hours, I can when I get up in the morning too.

[Ilios]

Ok guys, I've made some calculations, and there's some negative side to founding in place as well.

Since there's no 3F tile, we just work the Sheep tile, while building a warrior.

So:

T1 Start warrior, start Agriculture
T8 Finish warrior, start warrior
T11 Size two capital, start worker, finish Agriculture, start Mining
T20 finish Mining, start Bronze Working
T23 Finish worker, worker starts farm on wheat, start worker
T28 worker move NE, N
T29 start mine
T34 worker does?
T35 finish worker
T44 finish Bronze working

So, for the whole ten turns, our workers can only farm the grasslands surrounding the capital

Even if we go for AH first, that still screws us because we'll still only be able to use 4 worker turns for the Pasture on the Sheep, and now BW is ten extra turns away.

[meatbalz]

hi guys, just had a real quick first look. i'll need to see which tiles we pick up + lose but by moving to the grassland hill that's N-NW we'd be able to keep all 3 bonus tiles in the BFC and potentially include a few more. of course there might be some hidden ones in the BFC now we'd lose if we moved my first thought is we should move that scout N-NW.

i'll do some more thinking + post in a sec

[meatbalz]

hi dazed, if we want the bonus hammer in the capital we need to settle on a plains hill; the only good candidate in view is the tile 1 SE; we could move the scout there although those 2 forest tiles S + SW of it might limit what we can see somewhat

i'm also going to declare victory (prematurely i'm sure ) and say we did well not to take carthage or any of the other civs i argued were too water-reliant. low sea level + what looks a pretty dry start seem to suggest we did the right thing.

anyway, on to more important stuff. initial scout move: may as well go through some different options

NE - NE might not be a good idea *IF* we're thinking of moving the settler. it's got 2 plains tiles E+SE of it, and it's off the river

E - SE is interesting although it looks like forests would limit our visibility to the E and SW so we might not pick up too much new info

SW - S is probably the second best option as it looks like we'd see a lot of new tiles from up there. to me it looks like those are all plains to the W so not sure we'd see too much that enthuses us

W - W looks decent although the forest W and hill NW would limit visibility

N - NW is in my opinion the strongest option. i might be wrong but it looks like the only direction we wouldn't get additional visibility on is the hill N of that tile. we'd open up a lot more tiles for scrutiny and crucially keep the 3 visible resources within range which gives us a lot of flexibility in terms of possibly moving the settler. from tile bleed it looks like there's a lot of plains tiles E and SW, but a lot of grassland N.


so that's my 2c on the starting scout move.


starting position has:
1 riverside grassland silver (2/0/6 improved)
1 dry plains wheat (4/1/0 improved)
1 riverside plains sheep (4/1/2 improved)
7 riverside grasslands (2/0/1)
2 riverside plains (1/1/1)
2 grassland (2/0/0)
3/4 grassland hills, leave out the riverside or not for now (can't tell what's S-S, i believe dazed says it's a plains hill?) (1/1/0)
3/2 plains hills (0/2/0)
10 forests

assuming we want cottages on every tile, that's potential for size 16-17 depending on that last hill tile. 17 for sure after biology when we get +1F in the farm. not too shabby, but i'm not enthused by it. i'd like to check out the surroundings, preferably through the N-NW scout move i suggested.




if we do decide to move the settler, here are a few points against moving:
1) we lose a turn
2) without knowing anything about the map, i think you can still assume moving the capital will bring us closer to one of our neighbours
3) we lose 8 of those forests for early chopping - we'll see how many we gain back when we move the scout (and we definitely gain some grassland hills + lose some plains ones, which is a good thing)

we'll be able to make a more informed decision once we determine where to move the scout.



ilios, what do you think?

[Ilios]

I agree with moving the scout N + NW. We can move him counter clockwise around the capital, moving on the forested hills to minimize a bear mauling, to get an idea of our immediate surroundings.

If we see anything interesting with our first scout move, we can consider moving the settler.

If we do settle in place, here’s a revised micro plan to avoid having our worker watching the landscape…

T1 Start warrior, start Agriculture (capital working sheep tile)
T8 Finish warrior #1, start warrior
T11 Size two capital, one more turn in warrior, (working sheep tile and forested plains hill), finish Agriculture, start Mining
The reasoning for bringing the warrior to 11/15, is that we can then send out our first warrior to scout as well. If there are any unwanted visitors, we can just switch to the warrior which will finish in 1 turn.
T12 switch to worker (working same tiles)
T20 finish Mining, start Bronze Working
T24 Finish worker, worker starts farm on wheat, continue building warrior (at 11/15), max growth in city (work wheat and sheep tile)
T26 finish warrior #2 (start warrior at 2/15)
T27 wheat farmed (food box 6/22, warrior 5/15)
T28 worker move NE, N (10/22 – 8/15)
T29 start mine (14/22 – 11/15)
T30 18/22 – 14/15
T31 grow to size 3, finish warrior #3, start Settler
T32 Mine finished
T34 worker S Farm
T39 worker E Farm
T43-44 finish Bronze working

By the way, the BFC has 11 forests

[Ilios]

As you can see, I think it's best we don't build a second worker before the settler, because he won't have anything to do. The settler will finish around the same time bronze working comes in, and with the amount of warriors we'd have built by then, we should be able to found our second city next to copper.

Our next two builds in the capital should be workers though.