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T-hawk Wrote:Do you think the choice would be any different without that Great Person rule? I was indeed trying to nerf an early Academy (largely to avoid a huge swingy 50/50 coinflip if you picked just 1 scientist wonder.) But I didn't want to banhammer it as far as "no Academy till 1 AD". The power of the Great Library is supposed to give you Academies and I felt it would be unfair to the GL to nerf it any harder than that.
I think so. With your rule my 2nd GPerson HAD to be a scientist. Without it, I could go 'Mids + Oxford and have two chances to roll the GScientist.
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T-hawk Wrote:Writing now after the fact, Kremlin/Globe Theatre may be worth another thought. This Carthage can make +15 food at size 5, with a lighthouse and the flood plain farmed. It can grow every single turn with a granary. That means you can average a whip every turn. This wonder combo adds +15 hammers/turn! Plus you get to whip (good food conversion ratio) 5 times as often as usual! I didn't properly think about this combo originally, but it might be the most powerful out there. (Add Heroic Epic, Bureaucracy, and a forge: 123 hammers per whip!?)
Woohoo, I got this right. 
T-hawk Wrote:Ring sort of approximates the layout of the real-life Mediterranean Sea. To build on that theme, I deliberately selected opponents from the real Mediterranean, and arranged them geographically correctly. Part of this is just an intelligence test to see if anybody notices that I did that.
Completely missed this. 
I have to run.
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Hi,
again, I didn't manage to finish in time - guess I shouldn't have joined PBEM4.  I'll give a summary of my game in a day or two. I was one of the two players choosing Pyramids and Statue of Liberty, and foolishly decided to go for a domination victory (I realized too late that logistics become kind of painful on a ring map).
General thoughts:
* With more time, I would have liked to try a Great Library + National Epic start, just to see how endless amounts of Great Scientists can be leveraged (hoping not to get too many Great Artists!).
* I was a bit disappointed that we didn't get a leader that starts with Mysticism. Would have been fun to see if someone takes Sankore+Spiral Minaret, just to be different. 
* I didn't realized the power of the Kremlin, mainly because I didn't know it applies to whipping.  I guess the one or two times I had built it, I only rush-bought stuff... 
-Kylearan
There are two kinds of fools. One says, "This is old, and therefore good." And one says, "This is new, and therefore better." - John Brunner, The Shockwave Rider
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T-hawk Wrote:The synergy is Bureaucracy. Big B synergizes directly with both Oxford and Kremlin. And Oxford makes possible the Oracle-CS slingshot to Bureaucracy, while Kremlin means you can do it without sacrificing expansion speed.
Actually that was something I forgot to mention. The Big B's production bonus is additive with The Kremlins, not multiplicative. Everything in CIV is additive. The only thing special about Bureaucracy is the commerce bonus. Its the only commerce bonus in the game, and is multiplicative with beaker/gold boosters. Oxford is amazingly synergistic with Bureacracy but The Kremlin is not.
Darrell
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Kylearan Wrote:* I was a bit disappointed that we didn't get a leader that starts with Mysticism. Would have been fun to see if someone takes Sankore+Spiral Minaret, just to be different.
Interesting angle. You couldn't have known this at game start, but that might have been viable, since neighbor Ramesses founded religions and spread them to the player pretty early in almost every game.
darrelljs Wrote:Actually that was something I forgot to mention. The Big B's production bonus is additive with The Kremlins, not multiplicative. Everything in CIV is additive.
Not the Kremlin. It is multiplicative. It's not really "+50% hammers from whipping" although that is the way it plays out. Kremlin is exactly what it says on the tin: "-33% hurry cost". It goes like this:
Normally, 30 hammers whipped = 1 population
With +50% from Bureau, 45 hammers whipped = 1 population
With Kremlin, 45 hammers whipped = 0.67 population
Since we can't kill a fraction of a population, we scale up to an integer, as with all whips. 67.5 hammers whipped = 1.00 population.
Incidentally, this also explains the rounding error that novice and I noticed. Kremlin gives 44 hammers for a single whip, not 45, because it's -33% cost, not -33.333333%.
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Wow...I didn't realize that  . So in the modern era if I have Forges and powered Factories, the Kremlin is essentially +100% production for rushing?
Darrell
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Yes. If your city's hammer multiplier is +100%, then the Kremlin will add 30 final hammers per population whipped. You could think of that as either +100% additive or +50% multiplicative. I prefer the latter.
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darrelljs Wrote:There is no way you can hit Liberalism before 1 A.D. No way whatsoever.
Darrell
I hope darrell was joking  I swapped my wonders to Oxford + GLibrary and restarted. Liberalism in 50BC (took CS with Oracle), and I'm sure that date is nothing close to the earliest possible.
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sunrise089 Wrote:I hope darrell was joking I swapped my wonders to Oxford + GLibrary and restarted. Liberalism in 50BC (took CS with Oracle), and I'm sure that date is nothing close to the earliest possible.
Baiting more than joking, I was hoping somebody would try it .
Darrell
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Quote:Liberalism - Democracy in 680 AD. I expect that to be a popular play overall; we know it's very good for space. I really anticipate comparing this Oxford-driven Liberalism time to the other research options, like Great Library alone, Library/Oxford, Library/Pyramids, Statue/Pyramids, or some Great Lighthouse combination.
I did Liberalism - Democracy in 520AD (OxU / Library)
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