[SPOILERS] PBEM 8 - Shoot the Moon's Thread

[Shoot the Moon]

It's been a while since I've updated this thread, and a lot has happened. I hope to be able to update it sometime tomorrow, I've just been really busy.

[Shoot the Moon]

Sorry for the lack of updates, I've been quite busy and haven't had time yet.

Anyway, I've had a bunch of other warriors (4 total, will explain more) coming after my capital, so I've been forced to build warriors almost constantly to defend. I was able to put the overflow of a chop (after the chop completed a warrior) into a settler, which I am now putting hammers into. I've revolted to slavery, and already whipped the city once (for a warrior -- it wasn't urgent, but no use working unimproved tiles).

Here's the current situation:



Maya's warrior came from the NW. I've been using my warriors on the forest-hills to prevent it from ever getting into my second ring. Right now, my worker is chopping that hilled forest, chop to come in in 3t (into an archer most likely to finally start clearing these chocking warriors). I have two warriors on the flatland to kill Byz's warrior if it decides to raze my farm.

I also had two warriors to my south, although the Byz one went back toward their capital. Considering 40% culture, fortify, warrior 25% defend bonus, and crossing river, I am at absolutely zero risk of my cap being taken, and won't bother clearing out my south until I want to improve it anyway.

I also have a warrior in Byz's land. It has razed the farm Byz had on their corn, and is now just sitting on their copper. In regards to that: I'm quite peeved that Byz gets copper in their capital, whereas I must go settle for mine. Considering how closely packed we all are, that's a ridiculous advantage.

Tech path has gone agri --> BW --> Hunting --> Archery. I'll probably go either wheel to pottery (roads, granaries, cottages) or AH (food and don't miss horses) next, although if a religion still hasn't been founded it will be tempting to go for that too. More mid-term for techs, I will probably look to pick up fishing somewhere, and then quickly snag writing (cheap libraries) and then make a run to monarchy (and if it seems the religion path is entirely being ignored, perhaps oracle it, although that would depend on defense.)

[Shoot the Moon]

Sorry for no resource indicators, tile yields, or anything else really in that screenshot by the way. For some reason, every so often when I load civ 4 on my laptop, the game thinks that it does not meet minimum system requirements and automatically reverts graphics settings to the lowest possible (there's a certain irony to civ 4 thinking a laptop with an i7 and a decent graphics card doesn't meet system requirements, but whatever). Anyway, I wound up taking that picture before being able to turn back on all the normal graphical flourishes we all love. Considering that's the only screenshot I've posted in 10+ turns, I apologize for not having all the info shown.

Does anyone know how to stop civ from mistakenly resetting all the graphics to low? Is it possible to turn off that system requirements check?

[plako]

I also have a warrior in Byz's land. It has razed the farm Byz had on their corn, and is now just sitting on their copper. In regards to that: I'm quite peeved that Byz gets copper in their capital, whereas I must go settle for mine. Considering how closely packed we all are, that's a ridiculous advantage.

I probably shouldn't comment this, but I can't help myself. Not everything is equal and landwise you've some values that are better than Byzantiums and some that are worse. Copper belongs to worse category, but is it really that much worse? Byz has it under his cultural control only because he is Creative and even straight beeline to BW from Byz would have left you time to secure the copper before axes could pay a visit assuming you've the skills that you obvivusly seem to have.

From your description I can see that you've adopted well to the situation and pretty close to secure your copper. Good job.

[Shoot the Moon]

I probably shouldn't comment this, but I can't help myself. Not everything is equal and landwise you've some values that are better than Byzantiums and some that are worse. Copper belongs to worse category, but is it really that much worse? Byz has it under his cultural control only because he is Creative and even straight beeline to BW from Byz would have left you time to secure the copper before axes could pay a visit assuming you've the skills that you obvivusly seem to have.

From your description I can see that you've adopted well to the situation and pretty close to secure your copper. Good job.

Yes, but not having copper has meant that I have to research hunting AND archery AND send my first settler to wherever copper is AND immediately prioritize hooking up copper and having a road network just to protect myself. In comparison, if I had copper in my culture, next to a river like Byz does, all I have to do is stick a warrior on it and then send a fast worker there. That is an absolutely HUGE difference in the early game, especially one in which I am being choked by four different warriors. If I had copper where Byz does, I would already have copper hooked up and would be researching pottery now (and already have the wheel in) instead of researching archery and having hunting. I stand by my statement that copper in the BFC with civs this close is a ridiculous advantage. Although I obviously don't have much map info at this point, the other inequalities in the map would have to be pretty huge in my eyes to make up for such an early setback. Having to go two techs out of the way this early snowballs to a lot later.

[plako]

I know, I shouldn't have answered . I'll try my best to not give out spoiler info although it is almost impossible, but I guess most of my points are not surprises to you.

Obvivously I didn't take every detail into account when making the map and probably I should have positioned Coppers more evenly, but I don't still think this will be that harmful to you long term. Some points to consider (No I didn't go all these when making the map):
* Archers are very useful in this setup. Every Archer you build for defense/choking/sentry instead of Axe/Spear will save you hammers
* You don't need a road to hook up and secure Copper
* Copper is positioned so that you can make a very relevant city not just collect the resource
* Byz has worse starting techs to claim early copper. Only in worst case scenario they would have had it hooked up by now
* Would you've started to plant cottages/roads and build granary right away after getting wheel/pottery? It might be that delaying won't affect you as much as you think.

Main disadvantage in my book is that you're forced to position the city to claim copper. Although the city will be nice you might have wanted more freedom when positioning it.

[Shoot the Moon]

I know, I shouldn't have answered . I'll try my best to not give out spoiler info although it is almost impossible, but I guess most of my points are not surprises to you.

Obvivously I didn't take every detail into account when making the map and probably I should have positioned Coppers more evenly, but I don't still think this will be that harmful to you long term. Some points to consider (No I didn't go all these when making the map):
* Archers are very useful in this setup. Every Archer you build for defense/choking/sentry instead of Axe/Spear will save you hammers
* You don't need a road to hook up and secure Copper
* Copper is positioned so that you can make a very relevant city not just collect the resource
* Byz has worse starting techs to claim early copper. Only in worst case scenario they would have had it hooked up by now
* Would you've started to plant cottages/roads and build granary right away after getting wheel/pottery? It might be that delaying won't affect you as much as you think.

Main disadvantage in my book is that you're forced to position the city to claim copper. Although the city will be nice you might have wanted more freedom when positioning it.

I agree that the city site to get copper is certainly nice (and considering the way I've explored the map, it's the only site I can really see at all at this point). Really, the big harm is having to go two techs out of my way at this point. I would much prefer to have pottery and be able to have my second city's first build be a granary. I would also probably whip a granary in my cap once the previous unhappiness wears off, so in 4t or so. That will be delayed.

That being said, it is probably best if we hold off discussing it much more, as I don't know what else is going on with the map. It's not something I can't overcome (especially as India), but it certainly wasn't something pleasant to discover when I found byz (and considering they are also planted on a stone-plains-hill and have similar food situations, I am 99% sure they planted in place, so it's not that they got lucky and moved toward copper.) I'll have to save further evaluation of the map until I've uncovered it, but I will say that putting us this close was certainly interesting, and must make for something quite fun to lurk

[Shoot the Moon]

This turn's update:

Byz moved their warrior S instead of razing my farm. I've thus left my warriors in place, so they will be able to attack any warrior that moves to a farm tile.

Archery came in after hitting end turn, chop completes next turn. I will probably put it into an archer, but that is not entirely assured yet.

[Shoot the Moon]

Update for last turn (nothing really interesting happened this turn except a worker completing as expected, so I'll just post my pictures from last turn:

Second city was founded:



And as you can see I attacked with my archer at 40% odds and won. Makes up for losing my chocking warrior at 25% I guess.

I whipped my cap into a worker. This turn I overflowed into another worker, due in 3t. My plan is to get up to three workers, then grow to size 4 or 5 while building axes/spears once copper is hooked up, and then whip a settler at the cap. The new city will probably grow to size two, then whip an axe, overflow to finish the archer its on, and then probably grow while building a granary with chops going into a worker. Long story short, juggling growing, military, and expansion with whips and chops into workers and settlers and growing while building military.

Oh, and according to demogs, I was the first to found my second city. That being said, when the next turn got back to me, it appears someone else has too, so I guess more accurately tied for first.

In other good news, Byz does not have their copper hooked up yet either (tile still shows "needs mine").

Finally, does anyone have any ideas for a city naming theme?

[Shoot the Moon]

Well, the choke on me is mostly done. For some reason, Maya moved their warrior SW off the forest last turn. I took 50-50 odds with my warrior, and won without a scratch . Now just that one warrior south of my cap to go.

Also noteworthy this turn: it appears warriorknight is at three cities based on his land % (which is now higher than mine. I guess it could be a second city placed further from the capital with popped borders, but I doubt he's popped second city borders without cultural this early). Either way, it appears he has been less chocked than I, which is not good.