Homeless mod ideas (wishful thinking)

[b0rsuk]

kyrub:

As you can see, I'm hijacking my own thread anyway ;-). But I can always edit the first posts to add more info. I have some vague ides, I hope global events are moddable ? Conjunctions suck, hard. Unless the wizard has a mastery (not node mastery !) or owns an improbable composition of nodes, the effect of Conjunctions is marginal. That's just math. Imagine I how 1 sorcery, 1 chaos, 1 nature. 1+1+1 = 3. With conjunction: 1/2 + 1/2 +2 = 3. A much more interesting event would be, for example, doubling all nodes on Myrror (but they're so strong already) or Arcanus. So, how about an event that doubles nodes of Arcanus and halves nodes of Myrror ?

Well sure, I think everyone would agree that generally buffs are much better than debuffs (the fact that buffs always work, but debuffs have only a random chance to work makes things even worse!). But white magic has 2 separate flavors of buffs- the life ones, and the divine ones. Nature only gets earth-related buffs, like giant strength and stone skin. Of course nature does have some good spells- the game is solid enough that every branch of magic gets good spells- but I think the number of really good spells in nature is much lower than that of white magic.

I still don't agree. I intentionally haven't mentioned resistance, because there's so many wrong things about it it deserves a separate thread (the hostile/beneficial magic rant). It goes deeper than that. I think that buffs are better even (or at least easier to use) even without being chance-based. Except for spells that kill units outright, like Petrify. Some more food for thought: each level of experience gives +1 Resistance. Also, bigger, especially fantastic creatures generally have more resistance. Who would you rather weaken - weaker or stronger units ? Strong units are those I could have trouble with, so I would weaken them. But I can't, really ! Stronger units are more resistant ! So what do hostile res-based spells do with resistance ? They make easy things easier. Hard battles remain hard.

[luddite]

kyrub:


I still don't agree. I intentionally haven't mentioned resistance, because there's so many wrong things about it it deserves a separate thread (the hostile/beneficial magic rant). It goes deeper than that. I think that buffs are better even (or at least easier to use) even without being chance-based. Except for spells that kill units outright, like Petrify. Some more food for thought: each level of experience gives +1 Resistance. Also, bigger, especially fantastic creatures generally have more resistance. Who would you rather weaken - weaker or stronger units ? Strong units are those I could have trouble with, so I would weaken them. But I can't, really ! Stronger units are more resistant ! So what do hostile res-based spells do with resistance ? They make easy things easier. Hard battles remain hard.

Yeah I agree. What I meant was that, even if debuffs worked 100% of the time, buffs would still generally be stronger, but giving the debuffs a chance to fail just ruins them completely. And like you said, the strongest units in this game are almost immune to debuffs.

Of course the biggest culprit in the standard game is Lionheart, which acts as a massive buff to every single stat in the beginning of the game. Just that one spell pretty much imbalances white magic.

[b0rsuk]

Part of the trouble seems that Life enchantments generally make units harder to kill. At some point (after several buffs or with the right buff) it can't be killed which usually means a won battle. Chaos buffs are less problematic. Eldritch Weapon, Flame Blade don't increase survivability directly. Cast it on gnoll halberdiers and they still risky dying when going against halfling swordsmen. Or spearmen... So, in a sense chaos buffs share the same weakness as weakening enchantments. It's not much use to cast lots of them on a single unit.

[luddite]

Yeah. Having High-damage, low-survivability units is fine if you're trading units against an equal opponent. But doing well in MoM is more about creating a super powerful army that never dies, so it can gain levels and constantly get more powerful, and defeat the endless hordes of the AI without you having to build replacements. White magic is by far the best for that (although some of the other magic spells are good for that too, especially iron skin)

[b0rsuk]

luddite:

I know and I fight against it. I mean, it's a legitimate strategy, but I've had too much of it.

kyrub:

would it be relatively simple to create an ability which adds an existing spell effect to an attack ? For example Shaman could deal low damage, but add Dispel Magic or Weakness to attacks. This would make it unwise to shoot the same targets over and over.

[kyrub]

add Dispel Magic or Weakness to attacks

I cannot see this done and it is not a question of time. Two different parts of code.

[b0rsuk]

How about these:

Beasmaster (hero)

The hero automatically summons one free creature at the start of combat:
in swamp: Nagas
in forest: Sprites
in mountains: War Bears
in desert: Fire Elemental
in tundra: Phantom Warriors
in hills: Hell Hounds

Burden of Time (spell)
Death
Very Rare
Global Enchantment

Replaces Eternal Night
Creatures not controlled by the caster heal at 5% health per turn, even if they have regeneration, are stationed in a city (including Animists' Guild), or there's a healer in the stack. This spell and Nature's Cures cancel each other out.
I think this spell would be strategically very interesting, would still combo with death creatures who are not supposed to heal naturally, and Eternal Night does suck.

Reproduction (spell, placeholder name)
Nature
Very Rare
Global Enchantment

Whenever the casting wizard trains a normal unit, it comes with extra figures:

2 -> 3
3 -> 4
4 -> 5
5 -> 7
6 -> 8
7, 8 -> 9

However, this is temporary. Once the surplus figures die, the unit only heals back to its normal number of figures.

Gaia's Gifts (spell)
Nature
Very Rare
Global Enchantment

Increases the global food counter using this formula:
food = max(food, 2 * food)
(Doubles unless it's negative)

This spell would allow a Nature mage to maintain ridiculously big armies. Does AI care about food upkeep at all ? Would it make a difference for AI ?

Change Terrain -> Seeds of Life
Nature
Uncommon

Replaces Change Terrain.
Like Change Terrain, but with these modifications:
Hills and Forests are no longer valid targets. They're already green.

-----------------------------------
I fear Seeds of Life is the only spell possible :|

[Catwalk]

How about these:

Beasmaster (hero)

The hero automatically summons one free creature at the start of combat:
in swamp: Nagas
in forest: Sprites
in mountains: War Bears
in desert: Fire Elemental
in tundra: Phantom Warriors
in hills: Hell Hounds

This one is really interesting, and might be possible to implement (wild guess). If not, it might be possible to simply give him creature summon spells (same way summon demon works), or give him a spellbook with those creatures in it and change them to act as combat summons too. This reminds me that on DS we were thinking about messing with combat summons quite a bit, thanks.

[kyrub]

I fear Seeds of Life is the only spell possible :|

Hmm. I don't want to disappoint you, b0rsuk, but to be perfectly honest with you, I cannot see myself settled in your homeless mod. The main reason is my inner need to focus on other things in my life than IDA. So you need to find someone else.

Other than that, I enjoy reading your wild fantasies. I find about 5% of your suggestion very good, 10% interesting. That does not seem much, but good enough for me! And sometimes, I think about some very distant time when I could make a mod of my own, which would focus solely on (fonctional, not mana-economic) redesign of Spell system. Then I would probably use some of your ideas (if you don't mind).

[b0rsuk]

This one is really interesting, and might be possible to implement (wild guess). If not, it might be possible to simply give him creature summon spells (same way summon demon works), or give him a spellbook with those creatures in it and change them to act as combat summons too. This reminds me that on DS we were thinking about messing with combat summons quite a bit, thanks.

I wish there were more fantastic creature types.The decision isn't easy in some cases. Desert could provide Phantom Warriors (fatamorgana!) or even skeletons. But then I would have nothing left to put in tundra. Maybe that's the point of tundra in MOM - it provides no resources and can't be changed.

I would prefer that the creature summoned is free and never grows with power (giant spiders etc). There aren't enough creatures to support that. And if you just add these as spells to Beastmaster's spellbook, it won't help him much. So I'm in favor of Summon Demon-like ability.

Oh, and obviously
Water - Nagas (or Kraken if I can create it with the editor)