The Kuriotates: A Tale of Centaurs, Hubris, and Unbridled Enthusiasm

[Commodore]

One kind of weird thought...how much is that third scout costing? Advance start points unspent become gold, which might make Calendar come all the quicker. Although upon still further reflection, the workers have plenty of farms to work on before plantation comes in, so that's fine. One other thing to consider, Mist did vow to give us hammers...some of those flat grassland tiles might hide copper or horses, which might make Mining a better target.

Finally, my inner eleven-year-old giggles at the juxtaposition of "flaming...centaurs" and the seductively sudsy fellow up top.

[Mardoc]

1) I tested in game, and Kuriotates get happiness from Remnants and Standing Stones if they're in the third ring. (Test was in FFH2, but presumably it's the same in EitB). Based on this, capital 1E of reagents and second city on the easternmost plains tile look like the right way to go.

. Main risk is hammers.

2) Unless new resources are revealed when we plant city #2, there will be no farms it can build in the first ring. So I'll start both workers at the capital, where they have two farms to build right away.

Yep.

3) We'll have three scouts. I'll start two of them in the second city. One will go north to get a hilltop look at our surroundings. The other will go southeast. Scout in the capital will go SW, maybe grab the goodie hut.

Sounds reasonable. Although it's possible Commodore has a point, if that 20 gold saves a couple turns on Calendar, it might be worth keeping. How much gold do we have left with this purchase plan, anyway?

4) For initial tech path, I'm thinking Calendar->chants->education->crafting->mining->mysticism. We'll need to work grasslands in order to grow, so we want to be putting cottages up as soon as possible. The multipliers from God-King should probably wait until we have something to multiply.

This is going to be a tough one, and it won't get easier. If we run out of things to build, we might want Crafting earlier, to put up Tailors and Dereptus. Wait! No Dereptus possible on this map . Tailors still work, though. Exploration is worth 3 gpt, from trade. And yes, we want cottages ASAP too.

About all I'm sure I agree with is that Mysticism should stay at the end

5) It'll be a slow slog to calendar, especially since we'll be paying upkeep for 3 cities almost immediately. I don't think we want to be in pacifism that long. So, I'll revolt into religion as soon as I get the option.

Religion doesn't buy us anything until Mysticism. We're likely to be revolting around then, anyway, for God King and/or Apprenticeship/Conquest. I'd go Nationalism first. Just don't forget to swap again.

I do start to think Commodore may have a point on saving some gold to ensure a max science jaunt to our first commerce techs. Particularly without rivers.

6) Aside from the dragon bones, the earliest good commerce tile we can work is that incense. We'll want to plantation that as soon as calendar comes in. Which means popping the barrows. I think we should wait to do that until we have at least a warrior in each city. But we probably want to park a unit on the barrows so it can't spawn any skeletons in the meanwhile. Once we're set on a location for our third city, I'll send one of the scouts back to do that
(hopefully we'll be in time).

Um. This is a map and settings where initial turns will be huge. 70 turns until Armageddon starts to hit, worse if Selrahc's figured out how to optimize for Advanced Start. I'm tempted to say pop it right away, take the gamble. I think lost turns would hurt us just about as much as a bad lair result.

In fact...maybe we want to go with just one worker, so we can have a warrior on hand T0? Or substitute a warrior for a scout? Or both?

We're going to want to garrison and/or pop the ruins early, too.

7) Looks like health will be a huge concern on this map. Health resources will be almost as important as happy resources. Expansive should help us with that early on, but it'll become an issue quickly as we grow. Lack of fresh water is going to hurt. Blight is going to hit like a ton of bricks.

Thoughts?

Agreed. Especially since we can get lots of extra happy, but not extra health.

[HidingKneel]

Finally, my inner eleven-year-old giggles at the juxtaposition of "flaming...centaurs" and the seductively sudsy fellow up top.

I noticed that too, about an hour after the post. What can I say: I'm a master of unintended double-entendres. But let me submit the following:



which should resolve any lingering questions about the sexuality of our mascot, the Old Spice Body Wash Centaur. It does, however, raise other "juxtaposition" questions, which I suspect are better left unasked.

[HidingKneel]

One kind of weird thought...how much is that third scout costing? Advance start points unspent become gold, which might make Calendar come all the quicker.

I don't remember how many we'll have left over. It's less than 20, or else I'd propose buying another scout. Anyway, my test says scouts are 20 each, so we could trade a scout to shave 2 turns off of calendar, say.

Hard to say if it's worth it. Huts are enabled on this map. A scout who pops a hut for some gold just paid for itself. A scout who pops a hut for a tech just paid for itself and then some. And I'd really like to get the lay of the land on our immediate surroundings before putting down city 3. If there's a Yggdrasil just outside our vision, we'll be much better off finding it than not finding it.

One other thing to consider, Mist did vow to give us hammers...some of those flat grassland tiles might hide copper or horses, which might make Mining a better target.

Good point. We can hold off on that decision until we see a little bit more of the map. Who knows, maybe we'll see a cluster resources when we lay down our second city that makes the decision obvious.

Religion doesn't buy us anything until Mysticism. We're likely to be revolting around then, anyway, for God King and/or Apprenticeship/Conquest. I'd go Nationalism first. Just don't forget to swap again.

Since we're unlikely to hit ten hammers before calendar, nationalism doesn't buy us anything either, does it? I just said religion because fractional culture
adds up and fractional hammers get rounded away. But surely all that matters is that we get out of pacifism .

Um. This is a map and settings where initial turns will be huge. 70 turns until Armageddon starts to hit, worse if Selrahc's figured out how to optimize for Advanced Start. I'm tempted to say pop it right away, take the gamble. I think lost turns would hurt us just about as much as a bad lair result.

In fact...maybe we want to go with just one worker, so we can have a warrior on hand T0? Or substitute a warrior for a scout? Or both?

We're going to want to garrison and/or pop the ruins early, too.

Ooh... didn't even notice those ruins. Anyway, I'm agreed that we don't want to lose any turns that we could be working a plantation. But calendar will take a while to come in, so I think we've got time to build an emergency warrior or two before popping anything. Especially since the capital will be able to work the RoP as soon as we fire the worldspell.

[Mardoc]

Since we're unlikely to hit ten hammers before calendar, nationalism doesn't buy us anything either, does it? I just said religion because fractional culture
adds up and fractional hammers get rounded away. But surely all that matters is that we get out of pacifism .

Well, true. I guess that means the overflow penalty is more likely to matter than the bonus, even. So ok, Religion all the way.

Hard to say if it's worth it. Huts are enabled on this map. A scout who pops a hut for some gold just paid for itself. A scout who pops a hut for a tech just paid for itself and then some. And I'd really like to get the lay of the land on our immediate surroundings before putting down city 3. If there's a Yggdrasil just outside our vision, we'll be much better off finding it than not finding it.

I forgot about huts! That does make the scouts likely to pay for themselves, even ignoring the value of map knowledge.

Ooh... didn't even notice those ruins. Anyway, I'm agreed that we don't want to lose any turns that we could be working a plantation. But calendar will take a while to come in, so I think we've got time to build an emergency warrior or two before popping anything. Especially since the capital will be able to work the RoP as soon as we fire the worldspell.

Well, I was thinking more about the turns lost of a settled GProphet or popping Calendar from the lair, or the turns lost if a skeleton/lizard does spawn before our scout returns and we have to build an assault force to pop it...

If you don't like the risk, well, it's true there are also a few turns lost if we have to rebuild a city. And even a chance of suddenly being free to sign up for the next game .

[HidingKneel]

And we're off!

I played the turn according to plan. Founded the capital east of the reagents, started with two workers and a scout. Founded second city on easternmost plains tile, started with a settler and two scouts.

Here's a picture of the land around Kwythellar:



Barely visible tile bleed shows that we've got a Tomb of Succelus to our south. Between that, the standing stones, the RoP, and our cheerful Kuriotate nature, we've got an initial happy cap of 14.

Here's Naggarond:



Looks like there is some farming to do over there, but I decided to keep the workers together nonetheless: it'll get the first farm up quicker, for example.

What else?

1) Revolted out of pacifism. (Can't even remember what I revolted into. But it definitely wasn't pacifism.)

2) Early maintenance is going to be crippling. Should have tested this out, but we're paying -4 for our second city. We get 8gp left over from our points, but two turns from we're going to need to drop the science slider. Unless, you know, we pick up some gold from huts. Which is not all that unlikely: we've got two huts in view already.

3) I'm definitely thinking we should wait to found city #3 until we've got a little more commerce flowing. So the question is: do we pop the worldspell now, or wait for city #3? Popping it now has some advantages, like exploring a bit of the map for us, and letting us work the RoP right away.

4) Can't move my units until next turn. So there's still time to decide whether or not to play smart or play reckless .

5) Founding the cities revealed 1 more corn resource by Kwythellar, and 2 more corn and a wheat resource by Naggarond. This makes me think education doesn't need to be our first priority: we'll be able to grow off of the corn while working other tiles that don't give so much food. Anyway, not a decision we need to make yet. Calendar could well be twenty turns away .

6) Tile bleed shows what I think looks like hills to the south. One of our scouts will have to check that out.

[Mardoc]

3) I'm definitely thinking we should wait to found city #3 until we've got a little more commerce flowing. So the question is: do we pop the worldspell now, or wait for city #3? Popping it now has some advantages, like exploring a bit of the map for us, and letting us work the RoP right away.

I think it mostly depends on when you're planning to settle city 3. If you're going to wait until after we've got our Calendar tiles in play, then I would absolutely pop the WS now. That'll make city 3 be founded several turns earlier, which counteracts the required 40 hammers input for the monument. Lets us work the Dragon Bones right away, too.

4) Can't move my units until next turn. So there's still time to decide whether or not to play smart or play reckless .

Well, you know my vote.

That said, I've thought of a possible counterargument. I think, but am not sure, that lairs inside borders do not spawn garrisons. If that's true, using the worldspell would mean we're not racing to pop them before they're garrisoned. Any general lurker know for sure?

5) Founding the cities revealed 1 more corn resource by Kwythellar, and 2 more corn and a wheat resource by Naggarond. This makes me think education doesn't need to be our first priority: we'll be able to grow off of the corn while working other tiles that don't give so much food. Anyway, not a decision we need to make yet. Calendar could well be twenty turns away .

Well, hmm. On the one hand, it's true that we'll have a lot of food. On the other - more food means we'll grow past our resource tiles sooner, and we really want to be growing onto cottages ASAP. Anyway, I agree the focus for now needs to be on minimizing our time to Calendar, instead of planning too long term.


Would you be willing to set up gmail forwarding of the save to me? I'd like to compare tech costs and whatnot, which I find a lot easier with the save open in front of me.

[HidingKneel]

Would you be willing to set up gmail forwarding of the save to me? I'd like to compare tech costs and whatnot, which I find a lot easier with the save open in front of me.

I don't know how to automate that, but I can send you the save when it comes in. Also, I'll ask if they can add you to the tracker (and Commodore too, if interested).

[Mardoc]

I don't know how to automate that,

It's pretty straightforward, but what you've proposed will work just as well.

Of course, Commodore will need to be added to the tracker once he's put on his halo , at the very latest.

In the meantime...what did you decide on the big questions?!?! If you popped the WS, what do we now know? And if you popped the lairs, what came out? The edge of my seat is getting a bit uncomfortable over here.

[HidingKneel]

Turn came in. First thing I did was pop the worldspell, which revealed a large swath of map. It also popped two huts: one for 28 gold, the other for a map.

It also revealed that there's already a skeleton on that barrow. Oh well; nothing we could have done about it. Better a strength 3 skeleton than a strength 4 lizardman, though. I moved Kwythellar's scout onto the ruin so it can't spawn anything, set Kwythellar to building a warrior while working the Remnants. Looks like popping a lair takes 3 turns in EitB. I'll start the process next turn, so that we'll have a warrior in time for the result. Meanwhile, workers are farming the corn.

Here's a screenshot of Kwythellar and its environs:



In Naggarond, I started working the Dragon Bones. It'll be slow to grow, but reasonably quick to get a warrior out (6 turns), and the commerce will help us get to calendar faster. It'll take 11 turns if we can run 100% science the whole time. At present we can run 100% science for 8 turns before our cash runs out. Hopefully we'll find some more huts and the situation will improve.

Here's a picture out by Naggarond:



And here's a screen of the region SE of Naggarond:



As you can see, Mist was quite generous with the Remnants of Patria on this map. We should be able to grab two of them with our third city, if we like. (Anybody know if this will give twice the happiness bonus?)

In other news, we've got a 7 pines not far from our territory, which should allow us to really slow Selrahc down. Do you think there's more than one of those on the map? If so, can one active multiple 7 pines in the same game?

Also visible in the tile bleed: Bradeline's Well to our south. I'm going to send a scout to go pop that ASAP. Might as well be us the pops it, and not a neighbor passing through.

From the looks of the scoreboard, we're the only ones that didn't found a third city on the first turn. Makes sense: everyone else will be packing their cities close together, so the maintenance shouldn't be as crippling. Which means we'll start a little slower than the others. In retrospect, we'd have been better off trading one of those settlers for a worker and a scout, but nothing to do about that now.

Here's the save as of EOT, which you can poke around with if you like.
Password is set to "Cardith".