[SPOILERS] scooter's thread: The Honorable French

[scooter]

Alright, I owe you all a big update. Super short version: The FG is on vs England (since Tasunke is apparently playing gunboat ), and I had a very positive email exchange and then brief chat with Twinkletoes today that makes me feel quite good about cooperation with him.

Bad news - Tasunke bounced me in ENG. Probably means I need to order Bre-Mao in the fall so I can be 100% assured of a fleet build.

[scooter]

Ok, full update on emails with Twinkletoes. The first two I may have posted already, but the more recentes ones I definitely haven't. The chat at the bottom is the most important IMO.

Hey Scooter,

Italy was (I think) my third choice simply for familiarity but I was expecting something else. C'est le vie as they would say in your country!

As I have little time around to engage in lots of genial early diplo, I will lay my cards out on the table. My country is a difficult one to play. I am effectively the odd one out. I am not quite in the Eastern nor the Western theatre and my expansion prospects are hindered somewhat by that. This makes me weak in the long term, though also gives me some freedom over who can be my friend and where I want to go.

It seems with my lack of time that everyone wants to give me an offer to mull over while I am away! Alliances here and there, messages of don't attack me, attack him, and so on. I am not going to be able to focus on what I actually need to do! Seen as its going that way, do you want to do the same?

I need to start planning for where I need to expand out towards and you know the game well enough that I either have to go East at Austria/Balkans or West at you. Now the East has more appeal to me as working with you can mean we don't have to focus on mediterranean fleets and we have a pretty safe back yard we can write off.

I'm glad Gaspar is ded-lurking you, he can explain to you about how well we worked together for most of our game together and that I am a firm ally with those who are straight with me.

Until I have time to reply again,

TT

TT,

Actually yeah, I talked to Gaspar a bit (don't forget to reply-all and CC him) and he said exactly that about you - that you were a really strong and reliable ally with him in Dip2. Combine that with my interest in a peaceful southern front, and you were actually the first person I contacted. I view my position as France that if I need one really solid friend longterm out of England, Germany, and Italy.

Now of course, it's pretty common the EFG turns into a 2v1 and I'd like to be on the "2" side of that, but after one of those guys are gone, Italy becomes part of that "triangle" so to speak. So at that point, I'd need a friend in either Italy or the other survivor of the West. Honestly, I'd prefer pushing by land and into the north waters than the south waters, so yes, I'm very interested in peace and cooperation with you. For you - I can offer you something none of the eastern countries can - a safe border. By that I mean - Austria is obviously the flipside of you, but no matter what they promise, they can't answer for what Turkey does, or even Russia if it quickly conquers Turkey and gets into Mediterranean waters. Me though - I can promise a safe border for you for much longer. So I like the idea of working with you - I think we both benefit quite a bit. If things go really well for me, I can make sure you get some of the spoils too to keep you strong in the south. Anyways, I'm just floating ideas right now, but I just wanted to make the point that I think we'd work well together.

Anyways, there's not really a rush for you to commit to any sort of grand alliance just 12 hours into the game! As you said - you don't really have time to waste on silly diplo smalltalk, so I figured I'd get right to the point. One thing we can do is commit to at least keeping things peaceful in the first year by keeping French and Italian units out of Piedmont. To me - I'd see that as a first step in building trust. I will stay out of Piedmont if you promise to do the same. We could arrange for a bounce if you'd like, but I'd like it even more if we could trust each other enough to just leave it empty this year. Let me know what you think. I think that's an easy first step in pursuing something, and if you want to expand to a more committed longterm cooperation we can explore that too with time.

Ok, I wrote enough! Hope your trip goes well!

Scooter,

I have pinched a tiny bit of free time and I have decided to respond to you while I can.

You definitely have hit on my current thinking regarding where my security is best served at this point. A peaceful Mediterranean border would give me a lot of safety and allow me to focus upon matters on the Eastern front, which certainly seem to be hotting up quickly!

It seems a plan is afoot to turn Tatan into another Sciz, with Russia and Turkey both mentioning a deal to be done. It seems they are pretty tight which I think should strike fear into everyone else! We know how powerful a Russia/Turkey accord can be in this game! It appears I may have to cut in on this deal or I will face a very very scary Eastern border. Hopefully I can convince Germany to help and make sure they don't become too dominant - I hope you aren't planning on going after him or I will be severly screwed.

I definitely agree that a bounce in Piedmont would be a very weak sign of trust and a great waste of early resources. My current plan is to look at securing my Austria border with a hold in Venice and I am considering a more unorthodox boating of Greece to try and secure some spoils before I end up too weak. I can foresee Piedmont being free for a while. I would be happy to sign an agreement on keeping it free, but I would need a couple of guarantees given the current eastern diplo scenario. I would like a guarantee on no Mediterranean fleet builds this year and no fleets in Wes or Tys for 2 years as I will be gunning for Greece and would like Tun left unhindered for then.

Regards,

TT

Emphasis mine - that's the gist of the deal. That sounded fine to me. My response:

TT - short on time right now... I'll try to send a follow-up email tonight. I can agree - Marseilles will not build a fleet this year (prob won't build at all) and I'll promise to leave fleets out of those tiles for 1901 and 1902. And of course Piedmont is effectively DMZ'd this year.

I'll have more to say tonight when I have more time, but I figured you should know ASAP that I'm in agreement on your terms since I know your window for emailing is limited this weekend.

Then I got this during the afternoon (probably 6 hours before the deadline):

Hey Scooter,

I'm available on chat for the next hour or so - hope you can make it. Would like to tie up our DMZ deal if possible.

TT

So this chat came, which is the most important part.

scooter: Hey TT
I'm on my phone but this should still work.
Twinkletoes: hey
cool
scooter: So I'm agreed on what you said.
Dmz piedmont and no south fleet builds and stay out of those med toles
You good with that?
Twinkletoes: Sounds good, I was wondering if you wanted to increase the size of the dmz to cover the med and north africa once taken in the winter? I want to work with you and I have a major desire to go east. Is that something profitable for you?
Then we can focus all our energies on other threats
scooter: That's fine. Are you wanting
This to be a set amount of time?
Twinkletoes: Its up to you. We can make it rolling if you want and we say that any fleet builds in Mar or Rom invalidate it? I dunno if that works?
scooter: How about this. Let's make it through 1902 minimum so 2 years. I'll take a look at it some more when I'm at a computer and when I've seen what happens this turn
Is that ok with you? I'm interested in some sort of rolling deal
Twinkletoes: Ok so we make it a DMZ until the end of 1902 then we discuss plans going forward
scooter: But I just don't want to rush it quite yet. Would like to talk it over with Gaspar too... But for 2 years I can def promise that
Yeah sounds great
Twinkletoes: no units in Pie nor fleets in Lyo, Wes?
scooter: Yep
Twinkletoes: sounds good
Is this confirmed?
scooter: Yes confirmed
Sorry for slow responses, at work hah
Twinkletoes: its alright
so will you be going after the silent Tasunke?
scooter: Yeah pretty much. Left me no choice
Twinkletoes: any replies at all?
scooter: Nope not a word. Others have said the same . He's literally emailed nobody
Should not have signed up IMO but such is life
Twinkletoes: yeah
will be interesting to see what he does
scooter: Yeah. I was paranoid for a bit that he was ignoring me and allying with Germany . But from asking around, same with everyone - he hadn't said anything
Twinkletoes: Who knows, he might be? But I doubt it by how silent he is in everything right now
scooter: Yeah I guess it's possible. Would be pretty slick if he pulled that off hah
Twinkletoes: indeed

Hmm. So TT is more or less interested in a longterm deal that keeps me out of the Mediteranean. I'm only interested if it guarantees I have an equally longterm ally, and that would mean FI vs G. Granted, it would mostly be me vs Germany, but having a free south border would be a big deal. I would be somewhat less nervous about an Italy stab than a Germany stab, so that's a draw to me. In contrast, an extended FG is certainly more powerful. Bigger is slightly tough to read, but Twinkletoes is a bit easier to read. I like them both, so I am 100% ok with working with either player. However, TT feels a bit more interested in pushing this deal longterm and with Bigger I feel to be a bit more "in the driver's seat" when we chat. I don't know if this is just his style or if he's just nodding like "uh-huh, uh-huh" and going with it. Tough to read. I'd kinda prefer an FG for pure enjoyment value of sweeping into the south, but again, I feel sliiiightly more comfortable with TT. It's close.

Gaspar, I'd like to hear your thoughts here. Cyneheard too if you're still reading.

[scooter]

AAAAAAGGHGHGHGHAGHHG. I just posted this in the Gamestate thread. It was there for 0.4 seconds, but if anyone has email notifications on (pretty likely), I'm in for some hurt. Here it is:



In the meantime, felt it prudent to quickly send a message off to TT:

Twinkletoes,

Thanks for the chat earlier - I think that was really helpful. I'm going to think it over. Basically, here's what I DON'T want is to sign this deal with you and then find out I'm on the wrong end of a GI in a post-England world and I've ceded my one defense against you by completely bailing on a Mediterranean presence, if that makes sense. So basically I do want to feel more confident that if it comes to blows between myself and Germany, that you favor me. I do need to do more thinking about the situation anyways. Any questions or comments? What's your read on Germany?

Anyways, so did the turn go as expected? Obviously your moves went as you expected, but I'm curious if the Austrian Tri-Ven was planned or not. Still gunning for Greece, and if so, any guarantees you'll get it? If you need help, I may be able to lean on Mattimeo to let you in.

scooter

Geeeeez that's bad if someone sees that. I seriously can NOT believe I just did that.

[scooter]

Ok I had to quickly invent some sort of question in the Organizing thread to attempt to cover my tracks a bit. Needed to post it really fast, so yeah, kinda pointless question, but whatever.

[Mardoc]

Ok I had to quickly invent some sort of question in the Organizing thread to attempt to cover my tracks a bit. Needed to post it really fast, so yeah, kinda pointless question, but whatever.

Oh, that's why you asked such an inane question!

Well...good luck . And I hope this doesn't put you off updating for us curious lurkers.

[scooter]

Oh, that's why you asked such an inane question!

Well...good luck . And I hope this doesn't put you off updating for us curious lurkers.

Yeah I went "crap, need to write something in the Org thread" and I came up blank . So that was my attempt. I'm betting somebody has email notifications on, in which case I'd be screwed. Although, email notifications only come when a post comes in, but they don't come again until you login again so... If somebody with email notifications did not login between your gamestate post and my stupid post, then I'm safe. We'll see. All it takes is one person to see it and paste it to everyone and I'm super screwed.

[Gaspar]

Ouch.

Yeah, if anyone sees that you're going to have to get the backpedal on in full force. I never use email notifications for anything but the Gamestate thread might be pretty likely for someone. In that case, it might be better to just get damage control emails out to all the relevant parties. In a sense, you should prey on everyone's RB ethos - they wouldn't read your spoiler thread, so they should all delete that email.

On the actual game situation - what's going on in the east? Lot of bounces but if I'm Rowain I *REALLY* don't like Bud-Rum. Perhaps some AT action going on? Not sure where that leaves TT. Ultimately, I think take out England then reassess but if TT is getting skunked in the Eastern Europe you don't really want him as an ally. Downside is that Germany is a much better solo win proposition than Italy, so the vicious stab is a lot more possible. I'd try and stall them both as long as possible and pick the one who can help you most down the road. All this is academic anyway - Tasunke could wake up and start trying in a minute and turn Bigger against you.

[scooter]

On the east - yeah, if TT comes away with no centers this year - I'd rather just avoid that train. He talked about making a play for Greece in year 1. I didn't know if he was serious, but his moves indicate that he is indeed serious.

Bigger is on chat now. Going to just chat him and see if he knows about the email. I mean, he has to know I'd be sending stuff like that, but it still sucks for there to be proof. Surely he's exploring stuff like that too. But yeah, this combined with Tasunke rising from the dead would be really bad for me. We'll see. I've got my work cut out for me now.

[scooter]

Anyways, I chose to keep quiet about the Gamestate thread thing. I do know that several of the players are not online when turns are resolved (it's late for the euros) and I didn't see many on chat, so there's really only one or two who could have seen it via email notification. I've talked (briefly) to Bigger, TT, Mattimeo, and Rowain, and none of them have even hinted at anything like that. So I think I may have gotten lucky. Time will tell though.

[Ichabod]

That's a nice tactic to use to feed false information to your opponents, by the way. I was going to fake an attempt at a cultural victory in the diplo thread of PB7 by posting a fake update. But it was going to be too much work in the end, so I didn't go through with it.