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Arise, Riders of Rohanna! Ride for Molach! [SPOILERS!]

Some EitB changes that affect our civ:

*Stables give +1 Trade Route -> Not overwhelmingly powerful, but a nice boost.

*Foreign Trade gives +1 Trade Routes, +1 Coastal Trade Routes, and +100% Improvement growth rate -> That's an early civic, if you gun for it soon enough, and a very powerful one. Depends on if we want more of a cottage based economy or a more farm based.

*Republic gives +1 Hammers and +1 Commerce from Enclaves and Towns, +3 Happy in the Largest Cities, +25% GPP, and +20% Culture -> Might acutally be decent to gun for it as a long term objective. Need to see the EitB tech tree again to be more specific about it.

*Mercantilism gives +2 Free Specialists per City, +1 Gold from Specialists, +1 Happy from Markets, and No Foreign Trade Routes -> Conflicts with foreign trade in the civic category, but can probably be used onde the cottages have grown, if we went that way. It's in the tech path that I find good for the Hippus.

*Pillage Values doubled -> hammer

*Units with the Esus Steward Promotion (Shadowrider, Nightwatch, Shadow) can cast some spells for money if CoE is state religion.
o Extort (All)
o Blur – 12 GP (All)
o Shadow Walk – 60 GP (Shadow Rider)
o Haste – 60 GP (Shadow)
o Poisoned Blades – 90 GP (With Poisons, Nightwatch)
o Regeneration – 120 GP (Shadow Rider)

This is an awesome change and one that fits the Hippus perfectly. CoE is on the desired tech path, it has a knight replacement that is very good and now it supplies our civ with something it would really lack otherwise: spells. Regeneration and haste, sign me up! Only religion that comes close to CoE to the Hippus is Empyrean for Rathas, in my opinion, and rathas + a late switch to CoE are not mutually exclusive.

*Stirrups (HAs) got more expensive -> frown

*Most mid to late game mundane technologies got a price cut -> Warhorses is way, way, way cheaper now and with way less prereqs. A reasoned beeline is certainly possible. It gives Knights, our amazing hero (which can hire mercenaries -> but not only mounted mercenaries, he can hire a lot of different units), Ride of the Nine Kings and Shadowriders.


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My brief study makes me think that the best path for the Hippus is: focus on expansion and economy (cottages - probably with foreign trade to help them grow) early -> prepare for a transition to full gold once everything we need is researched (warhorses, CoE and Mounted mercenaries) -> go full gold (financial trait, consumption, undercouncil means +55% at all cities, if we consider two free merchants from mercantilism, that's 12 free gold at every city already, no commerce involved) and buy the way to a conquest victory.

The desired techs would be in the gold line, the horse line and the CoE line, which are pretty interconnected, if you think about it.

Of course, pure theorycraft. But I haven't theorycrafted in a while, so i could not hold myself.
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Do we get a start picture, Q?
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Some great advice there, much appreciated.

About foreign trade, I suppose I must wait a bit till I'm grown as it kills agranism? Or priority sanitation higher.

After the basic Edu, Mining, HBR I could do masonry-construction if I suspect I might get attacked, or CoL-currency to get econ rolling. Or BW for jungle-happy-clearing. Or archery-stirrups if I'm crapmed for space and need to relieve some cities. Upgrade warriors to HAs.

Early border popping...religion? Or just build cities that don't need no stinkin' pops. I'm trying to bunch cities closer together than I might in SP, so mabye not that high priority. If the GA from drama is still available whenever I finish festivals, I might have a go at it - build culture rocks.

Stirrups is expensive. At least warriors can upgrade to HAs so I can use that to instantly upgrade an army for attack or defense.
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Sometime tonight frown
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.

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Sorry for delay.
Story to come.





[YOUR START:]
[Image: civ4screenshot0140.jpg]

[YOU RECEIVE A WARRIOR WITH THE FOLLOWING PROMOTIONS: RACE:DEMON, CAGED, HEROIC DEFENCE 1+2, WEAK, PROPHECY MARK, MAGIC IMMUNE, VALOR, STONESKIN, DRILL 1 AND HELD.
THE HELD PROMOTION CAN BE REMOVED BY MOVING ANY UNIT ON THAT TILE AND CASTING RELEASE FROM CAGE]
[Image: civ4screenshot0138.jpg]
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.

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Hmmmm. Can't remember ordering a demon warrior, but nice addition.
Appears I'm squeezed between the desert and the jungle here...gonna send warrior northish and scout to the tower S-SE
Grain + two calendar resources is nice, definately calendar, revolt for food, and the plantations will keep me teching along so I have leeway in what I want to research first, not 100% mandatory to grab Edu as quick.

Need to see more of the land to decide. From what I see, is perhaps 1W better for costal, or is that just stupid in MP since if someone goes OO it'll be toast.
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(February 13th, 2013, 17:49)Molach Wrote: Some great advice there, much appreciated.

About foreign trade, I suppose I must wait a bit till I'm grown as it kills agranism? Or priority sanitation higher.

After the basic Edu, Mining, HBR I could do masonry-construction if I suspect I might get attacked, or CoL-currency to get econ rolling. Or BW for jungle-happy-clearing. Or archery-stirrups if I'm crapmed for space and need to relieve some cities. Upgrade warriors to HAs.

Early border popping...religion? Or just build cities that don't need no stinkin' pops. I'm trying to bunch cities closer together than I might in SP, so mabye not that high priority. If the GA from drama is still available whenever I finish festivals, I might have a go at it - build culture rocks.

Stirrups is expensive. At least warriors can upgrade to HAs so I can use that to instantly upgrade an army for attack or defense.

Regarding Agrarianism vs. Foreign Trade, it'll certainly depend on the map. But my experience with FfH is that it's very easy to grow to your happy cap in a short period of time. And since there's no slavery, too much food ends up being just too much food, it doesn't translate that well into other things.

Culture is hard in FfH, way more than base civ. Careful placement of following cities is needed. If everything you want is on the second ring, find a better place for a second city. You'll be waiting far too long to get it.

(February 13th, 2013, 22:11)Qgqqqqq Wrote: Sometime tonight frown

No worries. I just saw you posting on all the other threads and I thought you were posting the starts.

Speaking of our start, it's awesome. Couldn't ask for better, really. Right now, the jungle hill 1S of the corn seems best to me, even if it means losing a turn. Not much point debating it before seeing the scout movement, though. Edit: 1W could also work.
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Yes good start. Perhaps Calender - crafting - mining - AC - Edu - festival - (quick grab of drama GA) - exploration - AH - HBR. If I'm threatened by very close hostile neighbour I might be able to rush straight to HBR for defense off the dye-commerce. Must run a WB test and see if how hard I can expand before needing edu/fastivals.

About settling I really need to see what's down there. If theres too much jungle I'll go 1W, even if hillside is good. But frankly I aim for kind of quick cities both N and S to soak up barb and AI attacks. Well maybe not AI. Also need to ensure enough production down there. 1W gives a lot of hills to spit out settlers at max_size, so safe in that regard. But also some tiles of useless water. Game will likely be over before I need to grow into those. Especially since god king means I should run some merc specs in capital as well.

Why are there two ancient forests in my start? Wonder what other goodies we can expect in the world...

I wanted to ask about lair/ruin popping. After a few test runs I've decided that I don't like lizard lairs much and that they are worth occupying to keep from spawning. Skeletons quickly become walking sticks of exp, but lizards disrupt workers far too much, and are pretty hard to reliably slay. I've seen in other games, people pop dungeons and lairs extremely early and get prophets and other goodies. I've usually gotten bad results, and several times 'kill or severely cripple my early civ'-kind of bad results. Powerful enemy spawn = death sentence for all practical purposes first 10 turns. I guess difficulty does matter a bit, but I'm not inclined to open anything (unless I'm faaaar from home) first 30-40 turns. Even if it _might_ win the game, very boring to have to play out a year-long game just because I _had_ to check out that dungeon. Yes, even dungeons have been mostly bad for me. So anyone have some_general_ advice about this?
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I rarely opened lairs/dungeons in my games and every time I did it, I got bad results. frown

If I recall correctly, graveyards are different. They have a high chance of good results and the bad results are just skeletons or spectres, which aren't that bad.

If you are far from home, than I don't see a problem with popping it. Don't expect the other players to like it very much, though, which can be a problem in a diplo game.

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*Lumbermills can be built in Ancient Forests

This EitB change makes it possible for those tiles to be very good. Even unimproved, the plains ancient forest is a 6 yield tile for you while building a settler. That's awesome and a big plus for the 1W position, instead of the southern one.

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*Tsunami is range 1 now instead of 2

EitB change. Makes your capital not that hard to defend if attacked by a OO follower. The priests would need to be on a boatable position to get you. The big problem with OO was not being able to counter attack the priests that cast tsunami to get you. It's still risky, but not THAT much.
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(February 14th, 2013, 09:02)Molach Wrote: So anyone have some_general_ advice about [exploring dungeons]?

I agree with you and Ichabod: I don't think it's worth risking a loss. You just have to watch out for the other players' units, which probably won't hesitate to pop your lairs. Note that ruins, barrows, and goblin forts (which normally have a defending unit) can be popped instantly; dungeons take three turns to explore. Shipwrecks can be popped in a single turn, which doesn't fit that pattern.

Putting one of your units on top of a ruin will stop lizardmen from spawning. Until that unit is killed by a barb or animal...
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