[SPOILERS] Donovan Zoi: Ikhanda-Making Mehmed (with AdrienIer)

[Donovan Zoi]

We got a map of the area, which now shows 3 potential city sites to choose from. There's also another hut 5 tiles away! I see that Thoth's CivStats score just went up by 6 this turn, so I am hoping that this hut brings us similar luck.

I took some screenies and will try to post a decent update tonite.

[Donovan Zoi]

OK , we have some catching up to do:

Turn 1 - 3960 BC

Our Scout encountered some friendly villagers, who gave us a map of the area just past the landmark north of town.

Jerks.

The map proved to be helpful, however, as it yielded the details for 3 more viable city spots with quite a few new resources. There is also another hut just east of the Sugar.

[Donovan Zoi]

Turn 1 - 3960 BC

The two spots closest to the capital are each a mere 3 tiles away. I always prefer to have a food resource shared by two cities whenever possible, and I get that with both options though it's pretty tight. Let's take a look:

City #1

Sorry for not having the resource tags on for this pic. There are Fish 2S of Istanbul, giving us 3 food resources in a 9-square radius if I build on the Plains Hill. This could be a second city that, along with the capital, would work well as a Settler and Worker pump early on as well as being a prime candidate for Globe Theatre and a GP economy once it starts to get squeezed. I think it will be hard to talk me out of making this the next city.

City #2

For this location, east of Istanbul, the 3 tile distance would unfortunately be a necessity. Because from what I can see in the fog, this site will be mostly water and a prime Moai candidate. We would still need to reveal more of the surrounding area as well.

[AdrienIer]

Hey don't count out a possible site near the silver : imagine finding a pig in the area for a second city that would boost your commerce !

But yeah rice sheep and shared fish is great too.

[Donovan Zoi]

Hey don't count out a possible site near the silver : imagine finding a pig in the area for a second city that would boost your commerce !

But yeah rice sheep and shared fish is great too.

I think the Silver site will need to wait for 3 reasons:

1. We won't have a scout over there for some time.
2. We won't be able to Mine the Silver until BW due to the forest.
3. The tri-food site can hit Size 3 in 8 turns if we time the worker right. Once it hits the Size 4 cap (perhaps earlier), it can give the Fish back to Istanbul and hopefully have 2 mines running.

But I certainly do want to hook that Silver city up at some point. I hope it has some food support!

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Turn 4 - 3840 BC




On the way to the NW hut, our Scout discovered another hut only 2 tiles away. The hut density factor (HDF) could explain why Thoth's score has already increased by the equivalent of 2 techs, likely because he got 2 techs from huts. I don't think there's any way he could have researched anything that quickly.

It makes me wonder if there is a way to wedge another scout into the queue, though it doesn't look like it. What is the danger of forgoing the Warrior for another Scout at this point? Do you know when animals and barbs will start showing up?

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Just south of the lake is another possible city, with Cow and Oasis.

[AdrienIer]

Without the warrior the settler could get attacked on his way to the city site, it would be a pretty dumb way to lose the game before it really begun. While a scout soon would be great I don't see how it's doable without slowing the growth.

I checked civstats, Thoth's first +6pts was during the interturn, so not a tech from a hut. His second (and Elkad's point increase) was during their turn so it's necessarily a hut. Maybe he got lucky with an event that gave him beakers so he finished his first tech early ?

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Do you know when animals and barbs will start showing up?

Yes.

[Donovan Zoi]

Thanks to you both for the input. I was only asking to see what we could get away with. With barbs available before our Settler is complete, I agree that the risk is not worth it.

Back to the hut issue, someone's ears must have been ringing because....

Turn 5 - 3800 BC
We have met Thoth!



And doggone it if he's not going to grab this hut as well. I'll start heading NW again to grab my original hut in 3 turns. It would also appear that Thoth is coming from the NW as well, so I may get to see where his capital lies.

Despite Thoth's early successes, he has got to be losing out on growth and/or production in favor of early commerce to get his first tech so quickly. We appear to be doing just the opposite in our projections and should hopefully win the long game over time once we start to build more cities.

Border pop
It's Turn 5 so Istanbul has expanded to 21 tiles. Nothing of any note was uncovered by this, except that we see our coastline continues east instead of north. I'll be building a Fort on the NW hill for naval purposes at some point in the future, unless the map later proves this unnecessary.

[Donovan Zoi]

I checked civstats, Thoth's first +6pts was during the interturn, so not a tech from a hut. His second (and Elkad's point increase) was during their turn so it's necessarily a hut. Maybe he got lucky with an event that gave him beakers so he finished his first tech early ?

I just checked and confirmed that events are off in this game. I expected to see one of his Civ traits as Financial but he is Expansive and Creative. The only available 40h tech to him was Fishing so perhaps he will be attempting that Workboat first plan that we already ruled out.

EDIT: If Thoth's thread title is any indication (case of beer and a well-armed fishing pole), then Fishing it is. Hopefully, people have also picked up on the hidden meaning in my thread title, which should be readily apparent to any RB vet infuriated by some of my proposals and questions.

[Donovan Zoi]

OK, so Thoth ended up getting a third tech from *my* hut. This is not a very good way to start a relationship.

There is also this comment from Thoth in the PB24 tech thread, which goes against what we have already determined from CivStats:

I've no problem replaying my turns the same way the 2nd time around.

But I must insist on keeping the 3 techs I've already popped from huts.

For those who havent read the thread, game admins are considering a restart after espionage was toggled Off for this game. I am not sure how one pops a hut while they are not logged in, so I sense a bit of misdirection. If anyone wants to shed some light on anything I may be missing regarding this early bounty, I would be glad to hear it.

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Seems like now is as good a time as any to revisit the Pottery v. BW discussion. I truly feel that going for Bronze Working first will be in our best interests.

Pottery - Granary
Even though the timing of the Granary in Istanbul is ideal, it will really have no purpose until we are able to slave something down from Size 4 in either city. And city 2 is going to grow so quickly with minimal shields that it would not be built before the population caps out.

Pottery - Cottages
As far as Cottages go, I'll admit that I habitually devalue them in the early game. However, that is not my reasoning for delaying them here. It's just that our Worker (and possibly another) will be busy farming and mining City 2.

BW - Slavery
Slavery can be used right away to get that second worker. I am also going to establish that all whips will be 2-pop since our cities will be capped at pop 3 for 10 turns afterward.

BW - Chopping Forests
Our land is surrounded by Forests and Jungle (IW needed), so the earlier the better in getting to it. This can be used in tandem with Slavery to get tough builds like the Ikhanda and Library done more quickly.

BW - Copper and Impi
After Thoth landed his third tech, I decided to see how he fared in games past. He came in 2nd in both RB15 and RB19. I also learned that some of the other players are not averse to a Warrior rush if the mood is right. Long story short, I don't want to be an unwitting victim this early in the game.

The land surrounding our capital was made for our UU, the Impi. I would also like to know the location of Copper before embarking on a third city. It doesn't even have to be connected right away; I just want to have that club in my bag if I have to call an audible.

I am sure there will be more to consider in the next 20 turns once things play out a bit more, but that is my stance for now. Perhaps that will change once I am a bit less riled up about the lost hut, but I doubt it.