[LURKERS ONLY] Restricted Peasants

[Qgqqqqq]

Just seeing grain that cant get irrigated is awkward for my ocd tendencies. Is it possible to change it to a sheep or dear? Will look at map at home later today

Did you know that the gamecode doesn't naturally place grains on rivers outside BFCs?

[Qgqqqqq]

Fixed 4 copper, had already fixed rice for 3.

[Alhazard]

Well considering the rush distances, probably doesnt matter if copper or horse is closer. I am ok with copper and horse. Thoughts on giving everyone their own source of stone and marble? Needed for national wonders, not just globals as well.

Also player 3's marble seems way more accessible than anyone else.

Add a bit more food to certain areas and looks good.

EDIT: concerned that player 3 has 2 happy to his right that is much easier to get while other players have to reach for their 2nd happy.

[GermanJoey]

I thought they were playing with no elephants?

I have no idea what the game settings are, I just ran the report.

No. Pacal literally has horse in his BFC...

must have mistyped. Anyways, you probably don't want to give them strategic resources in their BFCs unless every person has it. It is a recipe for disaster.

Not giving them a PH.

why not?

[Qgqqqqq]

Because it binds them to one spot, when the script has offered some choice and interesting decisions that I don't want to trample on. Because it runs ramshod over the natural generation. Because it's uninteresting.

[Qgqqqqq]

I stopped after that because between that and looking at the link you posted it seemed clear you were dealing with a different map. Was I incorrect?

[GermanJoey]

I stopped after that because between that and looking at the link you posted it seemed clear you were dealing with a different map. Was I incorrect?

No, this is my bad. Sorry. I genned the report, looked at it locally, but then renamed+uploaded the wrong file to my server. =/ I was very tired, baby stuff, etc. Take another look. The comments I made were on the map that you posted just before I made my post.

http://media.rhizzone.net/civ/pbem72.html

Because it binds them to one spot, when the script has offered some choice and interesting decisions that I don't want to trample on. Because it runs ramshod over the natural generation. Because it's uninteresting.

Q, this is an extremely lazy response. Like, I don't really care what you do with this map (the settings are bizarre and insane so it probably won't matter in any sense; BTS Toroid with Emperor maintance - what the hell?) and was just posting the report because it checks/counts a lot of stuff that is otherwise tedious for a mapmaker to do themselves. So, if you want to slow the game down with 10T-Quick-Speed workers, go for it. But, in a general sense, please don't say things like this. Your post is like a custom-designed cherry bomb shoved up my nose, as if you're trying to bait a flame out of my mouth. Well...

First of all, this isn't a FFH2 game, so the players here won't have 5-move settlers that see 10 tiles or whatever it is in that mod. Their ability to move will thus be based on how they move their scout, which will be pretty random. So, even if there was a better place they could move (and here, there isn't), all that a capital move means is that some players will get a random T0 bonus and some will not. There's no "interesting decision" involved, where they might give up a turn or two for a different/superior resource; they will either see something better and move, or else plant in place.

Second, if you actually look at the actual starts you generated you'll find that there are exactly zero choices and or interesting decisions, or whatever you want to call it, for them to make. None of these four should even consider moving their capitals as they are now. Well, I can see an argument for Player 4 to move 1S... if they had their horses revealed from T0 and they were playing a creative civ, but other than that, definitely no. (I also just noticed that, unless I missed it saying somewhere that this is an RtR game, Player 4 has AH-only food, which not only really fucks them, but will also ensure that they will have exactly zero decisions to make for at least the first 30 turns or so of the game)

Look for yourself, if you don't like my report's html-view:

Where would any of these players plant that is better than in-place?

Third, the idea of holding the output of a mapscript as sacred (especially Torusland, playable it is but pretty it is not), as if it were a fucking National Park or something, is really bizarre. I've seen a lot of people do this over the years and I still find it completely baffling. I guess it goes back to the single-player mentality or something, where the only meaning there was behind a player editing a genned mapscript was to cheat and bias it in their favor. But that's nonsensical for MP. Every single mapscript sucks and is unplayable in an MP environment, unless they're mirror-based I guess, but 99% of mirrored maps are boring. Torusland is the most playable non-mirrored mapscript by a longshot, but yet it is still unplayable without at least some editing. All mapscripts are just algorithms influenced by random numbers. They do not know what Civ4 is and they do not understand what they are doing - they mean nothing beyond convenience for the mapmaker.

Finally, in what sense is a slow first worker interesting? Do you enjoy reading about people shuffling their scouts around, or..?

[DTG]

The standard BTS rule is "no War Elephants," which is just an agreement among the players not to build the unit (like "no Spies"). I wouldn't remove Ivory from the map, otherwise it leads to a few small imbalances (more commerce and fewer hammers on the map, Hunting is less valuable, Markets are much weaker, Forges become much stronger, etc.).

[Alhazard]

The new hyperlink also has the wrong map still. Also I can see arguments for player 1 and 3 moving their cap to the PH. 1 would give up one river tile in the end, and 3 two tiles but the extra hammer might be worth it.
Player 4 starts with Agri and yeah their tech would have to be AH, Mining, BW, but I don't see a problem with no choice for the 1st 3 techs?
Player 3 also would probably rush BW with no AH food. Player 2 would rush AH. Player 1 only has interesting choice where SIP likely goes Agri->AH or plant on PH and open BW so the 1st FW can chopout the 2nd FW.

I do agree with you that emp toroid is just

[Qgqqqqq]

I don't have much time, so will respond further later. But for now, Joey, that was unjustified. Drawing connections between FFH and here to explain my own "poor" reasoning, whilst in ignorance of the facts - most relevantly, that reveal tile has been used to give vision on everything I think relevant in settling - and imposing your own sensibilities on the matter.

As Allhazard covered, there are a number of possibilities where moving may be the right decision.

What is uninteresting is a) the lack of choice, and b) the uniformity of starts. They very distinctly did not want mirroring, which is in part an option to have a diverse range of advantages to each site.