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Speaker Wrote:T-Hawk, you do realize that every team has pretty much a full 24 hours of real time (18 hours in game) to play their turn, right? You mean to tell me that a player is so busy he doesn't have time to check in once a day? If that's the case, then they need a partner, or teammate, or to not play.
I admit to not understanding CivStats with sequential turns well but I am almost positive that I checked early in the morning on a work trip and then had no chance to use my computer again until the next day. During that time, the turn rolled over. I don't think our turns are actually taking 24 hours even with logins.
As to having teammates cover for me, I understand that is the ideal and what should have happened. For that I apologize to my teammates. But i didn't even know that our turn had come up for us, so I didn't realize I would need them to cover for me.
Speaker and Sullla both have very high expectations for this game and that's their prerogative. However, I am not able to play a game that requires me to be so available all the time. If that makes me ineligible for PB in the eyes of the community, then so be it. Real life is more important.
If the original email tracker had been set up instead of relying on a basically useless civStats, this wouldn't be an issue. It is much easier for team 1 to keep track of their turns since when they get the CivStats email, it's actually their turn.
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Speaker Wrote:T-Hawk, you do realize that every team has pretty much a full 24 hours of real time (18 hours in game) to play their turn, right? You mean to tell me that a player is so busy he doesn't have time to check in once a day? Sure, almost all players can check in once a day almost all the time. And then what happens if somebody gets tied up and can't? An unexpected call for a business trip sounds like exactly the kind of extenuating circumstance that should bring a reload under consideration.
By the way, to try to be constructive, what exactly is this game's procedure for deciding on a reload? Currently, it would seem to be whether one can make a compelling enough case to get Sunrise to do it. Would it be feasible to establish a formal procedure? Voting from the teams might work, or might end up as 2-2 deadlocks all the time.
Quote:If that's the case, then they need a partner, or teammate, or to not play.
I agree with the sentiment. But push enough players into the "not play" option and soon you won't have a game at all.
I notice that your team played your most recent turn after dazedroyalty posted, so I'd assume you all knew that he missed his turn. Asking politely (this is a serious question), what did you think was going to happen when you played on instead of holding up to get things sorted out?
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Next Team is up.
If your team is concerned about missing turns, could I suggest that you pause the game until issues with that player is sorted out?
IE. If your team mate is MIA and your finish your turn, pause the game. That way your team mate can log in, unpause, and play thier turn. No need to get overly offended.
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I'm going to echo T-Hawk in saying we need a procedure for determining reloads. Right now it essentially seems to be at the discretion of Team 1 (because Sunrise obviously controls reloading) which is not a suitable procedure.
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antisocialmunky Wrote:Next Team is up.
If your team is concerned about missing turns, could I suggest that you pause the game until issues with that player is sorted out?
IE. If your team mate is MIA and your finish your turn, pause the game. That way your team mate can log in, unpause, and play thier turn. No need to get overly offended.
BTW this means Team 3 is up.
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At some point we need to ask if we really want to continue this. If everyone still wants to continue, then yeah, we need to get faster and have less reloads. But if people just aren't motivated to keep playing then there's not much point in going another 90 turns at this rate...
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Please place your official team votes after this post. Once all 4 teams have checked in, we will act accordingly.
Team 1 votes to continue playing.
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dazedroyalty Wrote:If the original email tracker had been set up instead of relying on a basically useless civStats, this wouldn't be an issue. It is much easier for team 1 to keep track of their turns since when they get the CivStats email, it's actually their turn.
Perhaps someone should check with scooter to see how the tracker's going, as he was the one who offered to create it. If he isn't able to continue working on the tracker, perhaps someone else should take over work on the tracker? Since most of the problems stem from the fact that civstats doesn't work properly, getting the tracker up and running would help keep the game running smoothly.
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Speaker Wrote:Please place your official team votes after this post. Once all 4 teams have checked in, we will act accordingly.
Team 1 votes to continue playing.
Team 3 votes for a reload if that wasn't apparent enough already =).
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I don't want to do a quote fest, but a few quick thoughts:
1a) Ok, I concede my team puts more effort than the norm into making sure we play the game consistently. And, some of us might get uptight when other people ask us to be accommodated when we're not asking for such accommodation from them.
1b) I think dazed is putting in less effort than the norm, even for PBEMs. I don't think not checking on the game in 18+ hours and making no sort of post or announcement is very cool in one of those either...at least not in the games I've played in/followed.
1c) I'm open-minded enough to believe that maybe the "reasonable amount of effort" we should try to require might be between these extremes. Admittedly I'm biased, but I don't think the standard for reloading should be the dazed situation, especially when we're only 10t in and we've extended the timer by 50% already. At some point I'd like to know the answer to "what did you expect the game to run like?"
2) Some of the lurkers in this thread seem to lean towards the dazed view versus the Team 1 view. That's fine. I'd caution them about two things: a) it might be easier to claim we should be accommodating when on the outside (note RB single player events have actually been pretty rigid in their ruleset, and SGs aren't too relaxed either), and b) some of the language describing what Speaker, Sullla, and I are asking for isn't accurate. Just because I've woken up in the middle of the night to play a game doesn't actually mean I expect everyone else to do that. No one needs to be "available all the time," etc. I hope everyone pondering this situation is very clear about what's being asked for: not checking the game for 18+ hours, not asking a teammate for help in advance, and not being willing to burn a turn when that happens. Remember, if the game is fun and casual and we shouldn't get too uptight of reloading then the same thing can probably be said for missing a turn.
3) I wish we could tone down the "the game is a farce" talk. Obviously I can't force anyone to say or not say anything here, but we're 10 turns into the game. If it's a farce now why wasn't it a farce at signup? If it was at signup then why play and yet complain? Additionally, without giving too much away, as best I can tell from demos, global announcements, etc, the game is very competitive right now. It isn't like I've razed 3 cities and my teammates have built SoL and teched Lib in 10t 
4) Finally, I'll vote with my team, but I'd personally be much more willing to grant dazed his reload if it's clear he's asking for a favor and it's sort of on a quid pro quo basis after the Team 4 debacle. I hope dazed's position isn't, and I'd be much less personally supportive of, a standard where a player just gets reloads at will if they happen to miss a turn with no real effort to mitigate things.
PS - Maybe I missed it, but I don't know if there even was an original request for a reload. Some of the angry language in this thread started when dazed thought he was being ignored, and I apologize for that, but if a reload wasn't explicitly asked for some of us may have not read between the lines.
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