Hmm, well, I think that we can probably ignore the top half of the tech tree for a while, besides calendar. We want Iron Working eventually to clear that jungle, but that can probably wait. I guess our main choice is in what order to tech the following: Civil Service, Construction, Metal Casting, Engineering, Iron Working, and Machinery. All offer military and economic benefits, just in varying degrees. We probably only need some of these to seriously hurt Yuris: Machinery (with Metal Casting as a pre-req), Iron Working, and maybe Civil Service, but the others will also be helpful. I think that after Calendar, it's time to start teching for war. There isn't much economic available without a very deep beeline, besides wonders and Bureaucracy. I'm not sure what order would be best, though.
We could try to use our blistering tech rate to grab the Music Great Artist, and maybe a wonder or two along the way, but that is just as risky as attacking Yuris. I guess it just depends on what risk we want to take, and how much we think that we can take from Yuri with how little effort. Do we try to conquer him completely, just capture his lowland cities, or something in between those two?
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
(August 28th, 2013, 19:10)Merovech Wrote: Hmm, well, I think that we can probably ignore the top half of the tech tree for a while, besides calendar. We want Iron Working eventually to clear that jungle, but that can probably wait. I guess our main choice is in what order to tech the following: Civil Service, Construction, Metal Casting, Engineering, Iron Working, and Machinery. All offer military and economic benefits, just in varying degrees. We probably only need some of these to seriously hurt Yuris: Machinery (with Metal Casting as a pre-req), Iron Working, and maybe Civil Service, but the others will also be helpful. I think that after Calendar, it's time to start teching for war. There isn't much economic available without a very deep beeline, besides wonders and Bureaucracy. I'm not sure what order would be best, though.
Heading for war techs after Calendar sounds good. Personally, I'd favor Feud/Guilds over CS/Engineering since Knights are so good and Vassalage is a underrated alternative to bureau enroute to Guilds, despite our academy capital.
(August 28th, 2013, 19:10)Merovech Wrote: We could try to use our blistering tech rate to grab the Music Great Artist, and maybe a wonder or two along the way, but that is just as risky as attacking Yuris. I guess it just depends on what risk we want to take, and how much we think that we can take from Yuri with how little effort. Do we try to conquer him completely, just capture his lowland cities, or something in between those two?
Maybe, but Music is quite a side trek and we don't really have a use for the Artist until we start conquering yuri. We don't have marble or a HE unit, so the only thing that the aest path might be worth teching to is shwed (although we don't have gold...). Still, Vassalage provides the 2nd promo anyway so perhaps not if we head that way. I'd probably still favor going after yuri ASAP before he can get his empire together.
Realistically, I still don't really see us getting any wonders without some mass chopping. Also I can't really see how they would be more useful to us then yuri's land, aside from perhaps colossus (although, we can't really afford to delay astro considering how our empire is turning out).
So, an attack with knights supported by cho-ko-nus (at least over hilly terrain, which a fair bit of Yuris' terrain appears to be, the cho-ko-nus won't slow down the knights, plus we could always add a little naval action, since cho-ko-nus can deal collateral amphibiously)? We'll have to pick up Horseback Riding for the Knights and Archery for the cho-ko-nus, but those aren't too expensive at this point. If we don't have iron, though, we're in a bit of trouble offensively. We might be able to buy it from Sian, but probably not.
Edit: Wait, does the cho-ko-nu have 2 first strikes or 1-2 first strikes? I always thought that it was the latter, but the CFC unit info page suggests the former. It'd be a pretty cool surprise if they had 2 straight up.
Also, cho-ko-nus are only 10 hammers more expensive than cats, and better in every meaningful way, so we can pretty much ignore Construction and Engineering if we want. The movement bonuses aren't that useful on the offense, anyway.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Well, yes ckn can't replace cats, but in this case I think we can forgo cats since we're looking for a quick blitz and CKN are just more mobile since they can go Gur2 with a 2nd promo (and can attack out of boats, even though I don't think that'll happen that much). If we're quick, yuri shouldn't have much that can counter Knights/CKN so the extra collateral probably won't be needed.
That said, the road bonus from Engineering is always useful, just not before Guilds/Archery/HBR/IW.
(August 29th, 2013, 02:34)mackoti Wrote: well choko never replace cats, are good to hit a stack in open but they do far less colateral damage and cant bombard walls.
I did forget this (italicization added by me). Thanks for reminding me. I hope that we won't have to run into too many walls, at least at first, though I suppose we will see plenty if we are successful.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
I can play this turn and tomorrow's turn without any trouble, but playing the turn after might be a little difficult. Do you mind taking over then (Sept. 1 here, though the 12 hour time difference might change that slightly)? I will leave instructions for the next few turns, at least, and I'll still be aroudn to chat/occasionally log in.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
No real turn report tonight (going to make a huge one next turn), but slow offered us open borders, mainly because he wants to move an exploring galley through and around our peninsula. He also has a trade route to us, but I'm pretty sure that we do not have one to him. Soooo...nope.
Since we can't offer him to cancel deals with Yuri (stupid mechanical lacking, if you ask me), I instead offered him open borders and 4 (or 6, can't remember) gold per turn in exchange for gold (the resource). This does make eventually scouting a trad route to slowcheetah important, since Sian can't completely fill up our island trade routes.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Should be good to take over starting turn after next. First week may be a little difficult but after that I should have a bit more time to devote to this game. Instructions would be nice, but I'd rather have a direction to head in for each city (city specialization) so I know what plans you have for each city, if you've made any so far.
As for the OB deal, I'm expecting a AI diplo equivalent response of 'lol no' anytime now. With multiple domestic intercontinental trade routes, I don't see why we should even bother with OB for trade routes in the first place, since others get far more from them then we do.
Well, the open borders with Sian I think is a good idea, since he's not a big threat economically right now nor do we border him, and it's always good to have an ally. Besides, it benefits Sian probably a little over 10, maybe 12 commerce per turn, us about 7 commerce per turn, and everyone else nothing. Since this isn't a duel, not do I expect us to war with Sian for a long time, if ever, it's a good deal. We "lose" 3-5 commerce per turn compared to Sian but gain 7 compared to everyone else.
But yeah, open borders with slow only for a price.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
