[Spoilers] Defining the phrase "€˜Hung Like a Horse"€™: Pb & the Kuriotates

[v8mark]

Excellent.

I think as well as screaming in van Nistelrooy's face, he barged into him too, which was what earned him the suspension.

Edit: maybe not a suspension, just a fine, googling it...

[Dantski]

I guess V Jones woulda been too obvious?

[pocketbeetle]

I guess V Jones woulda been too obvious?

Honestly didn't cross my mind!

Should have considered him though, you're right.
He would have been an excellent ambassador!

“One way or another, I’m going to score tonight”

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 65:

Starting with Vanilla Ice, another bear showed up this turn.

I’ve got 30% odds on the attack, so that’s a non-starter.

I can either move across the river, at which point the bear can attack Vanilla Ice at around 5 vs 6 str (3str + 25% tile + 30% woodsman + 50% animals), but that’s how we lost Clogz if you remember, with similar numbers.

I don’t want to risk the GC to that, so Vanilla Ice fortified on the tile to see if the bear feels like crossing the river.
The forested hill across a river that he’s currently on gives him roughly 9str, much better odds.



The Savant trotted onto a hill.

More importantly, Caledor was founded this turn.



Working the deer means the SC gets built in 5 turns, conveniently around the time I lose the Philosophical +100% hammer bonus.
The maintenance is more hefty than I was expecting -4.2 gp/t at pop 1.
But even so, the current costs only went up by 1 to -5gp thanks to the increased unit supply from having two cities.

Moving the warriors and workers around gives the picture below.



Bobbin is roading the plains hill which will speed up improving the wheat later, after completing that he’ll farm one of those gl river for a nice 4f/1c tile.
I should probably road that last river bend tile first to get an internal trade route going.
The wait for Fishing (allows river trading) will be another 9 turns at least.
That was a slight mistake by me, bothering with the plains hill road, the bear wasn’t around I should have gone and roaded the river bend first. Forgot about not having Fishing, oh well.

Bob, currently in the forest East of Caledor, is going to road to the settlement position.
There’s roughly 5 turns until the second settler completes, Vanilla Ice and the Savant will probably help defog that area.

Fluff is garrisoned in Caledor. Haven’t decided if he’ll accompany Bob to the settlement yet.
Boggy B and Beefy will play tag with the bear and keep the highway free of bandits.

I sent a map trade offer to Selrahc, along with the invitation to have a chat after he gets a look. I’ll ask him about the Axe warrior also.
I’m not going to offer him Open Borders just yet.

Clicking end turn brought in Crafting, 5 turns to Mining.


Demographics:

• I gained 17ish points this turn (not currently displayed), thanks to the tech and +1 pop.
  
• Sareln built a warrior/scout this turn.
  
• Surprisingly, I’m still joint top soldier count.
  Considering how much trouble I’ve been having with just one bear, what the hell are the others doing? Huddling in their cities?
  

Not much else going on, it’s all happening here!

On a minor note, I find it amusing how the ingame attitude indicators so closely match the actual diplomatic situation.

[pocketbeetle]

[strike]

[strike]Thanks a bunch for Ilios for stepping in and for enabling me to take my first vacation of 2 weeks this year without a laptop. Appreciated. I can jump back in anytime.[/strike]

[strike]Hi Archduke,

Again, you've left the rest of us sitting around, waiting and wondering if you're going to show up.
You don't seem like a stupid guy, so I can't make myself believe that you failed to notice the many many posts above about a possible blitz today.

In my most charitable frame of mind, I can only assume you thought that Ilios was going to play for you.
However by posting the above vague statement (and then not even bothering to check for replies), you implied you were back and in charge, so Ilios hasn't bothered turning up.
As a result, yet another hour+ of 5 other peoples' weekend time has been wasted.

You need to improve on both your communication (in this tech thread) and consideration, both for the others', and much more importantly, MY time.

Regards,
Pb[/strike]

You have no idea how many rude versions of this I wrote, before ending with something that could get past the forum's "no WMD" filter.[/strike]

Who knew, I get more diplomatic after a couple of beers.

The problem with the above is, it's vague, and it looks like Ilios has assumed Archduke was back in charge.

Rather than getting angry on the forum, I'll try and have a chat with Archduke via email.
But needless to say, this isn't fair, it's not the first time, and it needs to stop happening.

Hi Thomas,

I don't know if you've seen the tech thread, but we had another problem yesterday.

There was a blitz lined up, and there were lots of posts about it in the tech thread, which were quite plain to see.
Unfortunately when you posted that you were back and could 'jump in any time', it was assumed by Ilios that you were ready to take over, and so neither he nor you were online.
As a result, all five of us were left sitting around for more than an hour for no reason, and we both know this isn't the first time.

Before I even start trying to address what's going wrong, let's establish an understanding.
Have you stopped caring about this PBEM? Are you fed up with it?

I know you've been having a rough time, between losing your first scout, and the two nasty - population hits.
If you no longer care about it, let me know, maybe we can figure something out.
If you do still give a damn, then I'd like to try and work out ways to avoid these problems in the future.

Let me know.

Had a couple of chats with Selrahc and Bob.
There were a few gems among the bitching, I'll edit this later.

Here we go:

(8:09:05 PM) pocketbeetle: Oh yeah
(8:09:31 PM) pocketbeetle: Weeeell. Is the barrow still alive? I see it in the fog, curious if it stays or disappears after being removed
(8:10:11 PM) Selrahc: It's dead.
(8:10:19 PM) Selrahc: Got a great commander from the exploration
(8:10:24 PM) pocketbeetle: Really? Sweet!
(8:10:32 PM) Selrahc: Yeah.
(8:10:33 PM) pocketbeetle: GC Priest. That's gotta hurt
(8:10:39 PM) pocketbeetle: With axe
(8:10:41 PM) pocketbeetle: lol
(8:10:51 PM) Selrahc: GC plus Axe plus priest is strength 9...
(8:10:56 PM) Selrahc: Which is... ouch
(8:11:00 PM) pocketbeetle: yup
(8:11:40 PM) Selrahc: Operation barrowburn was pretty much a complete success
(8:12:12 PM) Selrahc: Lost a warrior... but I think I can take that hit
(8:12:13 PM) Selrahc:
(8:12:22 PM) pocketbeetle: The question I wanted to ask, is because I saw your warrior with the property "Has already casted this turn", yet it still had the axe and healing potion on it. What happened there? How does that work?
You can't release and pick up the axe in the same go can you?
(8:12:42 PM) Selrahc: Exploration counts as casting
(8:13:17 PM) pocketbeetle: Nono, I can't see your unit on the barrow, got no visibility there. It was the turn before
(8:13:27 PM) Selrahc: Oh, right
(8:13:27 PM) pocketbeetle: When he was on the forest SE of the barrow
(8:13:42 PM) Selrahc: You don't need to release the axe to pass it on.
(8:13:57 PM) pocketbeetle: ahhhh. ofc lol. The other unit just casts pickup
(8:14:02 PM) Selrahc: The second warrior took the axe, then died in the attack
(8:14:09 PM) Selrahc: Yeah
(8:14:17 PM) pocketbeetle: Gotcha thankyou. Coudln't figure it out, confused me
(8:14:29 PM) Selrahc: No worries
(8:14:43 PM) Selrahc: That everything for now?
(8:14:50 PM) pocketbeetle: Oh just to let you know, Sareln has been in contact asking for map trade. He was politely rebuffed
(8:15:04 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah thanks. Let me know when you get a chance to check out next turn

Eeep.
GC + Axe + Priests = baaaad combination.
Increased chance of Selrahc turning the Priests on me later.

The Sareln comment was just to reassure him.
Sareln and I have been updating our threads pretty close together sometimes, don't want him to start jumping at shadows.

(8:38:19 PM) Selrahc: It would probably save a lot of bother if I just walked the priests down south to kill Archduke.
(8:38:42 PM) pocketbeetle: Seriously. I think I even wrote that in my thread
(8:38:46 PM) pocketbeetle:
(8:39:29 PM) pocketbeetle: Shame you and Sareln were placed so close together
(8:39:38 PM) Selrahc: Yeah.
(8:40:00 PM) Selrahc: I haven't actually clashed with Sareln... it's just we're too cramped.
(8:40:24 PM) Selrahc: Bob would end up with all the profit if I went and got archduke.
(8:40:42 PM) pocketbeetle: I can see. I can take a screenshot with your borders, Sareln's and Culls all in one screen width. Not fun
(8:40:43 PM) Selrahc: And the last thing I want is a Calabim with too much breathing room
(8:40:49 PM) pocketbeetle: Do they have lots of room do they?
(8:41:03 PM) pocketbeetle: Haven't found either yet, so don't know
(8:41:07 PM) Selrahc: Much more than the northern 3.
(8:41:14 PM) Selrahc: I guess you'll see next turn
(8:41:28 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah. I've got a pretty goo didea where they are, but not of how big the island is
(8:41:48 PM) pocketbeetle: K. Yes, Calabim with lots of room = bad
(8:42:23 PM) Selrahc: I don't really. Not found the southern coastline.
(8:42:29 PM) Selrahc: Or the east or west coast
(8:42:42 PM) Selrahc: Just had some good luck with scouts.
(8:42:54 PM) Selrahc: To stumble on the others so fast
(8:43:17 PM) Selrahc: Although I think I was also the first to check out the southlands
(8:44:33 PM) pocketbeetle: Surprising, would have thought Sareln would get the first contacts with his elf bonus, but I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles.
(8:44:48 PM) pocketbeetle: I'm currently not sure if I should try to explore more, or wait for a better unit now.
(8:44:54 PM) pocketbeetle: Nastier barbs gotta be showing up soon
(8:45:23 PM) Selrahc: It's based on player tech
(8:45:31 PM) Selrahc: for what units show up
(8:45:52 PM) Selrahc: Once the general units are axemen, barb axemen start to arrive
(8:46:16 PM) Selrahc: But I think everyone is still on warriors...
(8:46:25 PM) pocketbeetle: really? didn't know that. So if everyone goes horse archers, they'll stay at warriors you think?
(8:46:38 PM) Selrahc: Should do.
(8:46:52 PM) Selrahc: You never noticed that barb cities stop growing after a while?
(8:47:02 PM) pocketbeetle: Cool. Now we've gotta convince Cull that Bronze working is a waste of his time ^^
(8:47:07 PM) Selrahc: That's when the majority of civs get conquest available
(8:47:18 PM) Selrahc: And Bob
(8:47:23 PM) pocketbeetle: Ahhh. No I didn't

Genuinely didn't really know that.


With Bob, obviously we still haven't met, so can't really talk about the game.

But briefly, while discussing what we'd do if we were looking for someone to join a player as dedicated lurker + occasional teamplayer, the problem of people being spoiled came up:

(9:38:08 PM) BobChillingworth: yeah, personally I don't care too much though. It's not like my civ & leader is very complex or leaves a lot of room open for interpretations
(9:38:33 PM) Bob Chillingworth: aristo farms, vampires, kill stuff, win somehow
(9:38:56 PM) BobChillingworth: and you're no doubt going to a culture win, since the kurios are the best at that and terrible at most else
(9:40:21 PM) pocketbeetle: Along those lines. But you can see I've been posting tons, and a lot of my thoughts opinions, what I think of the other players so far etc

Clearly someone's been reading my mouseover.
Think I should have been more convincing with my "Along those lines" statement, but oh well.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 66:

T66 was a pretty quiet turn, not much happening, with most of the interesting stuff coming from the diplo and map trading with Selrahc.

Vanilla Ice was attacked by the bear at the end of last turn, who managed to do a massive 0.1 dmg to him.
He gained 2 xp from the fight, 1 for defense, 1 xp from the Great Commander (GC gives +1xp for each fight to the unit it’s attached to).



Over at Caledor, workers are roading, warriors are running, Fluff garrisoned in the city.

I think between Vanilla Ice and the Savant, defensive duties for the worker may just be covered.
Still haven’t decided.




Demographics:

Will post diplo touch later.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 67:

Vanilla Ice moved onto a forested hill, Savant will follow him next turn.



Bobbin moved down to road the river bend.
If the bear moves towards him, he’ll retreat and put a turn into farming the gl tile W of Caledor.

Bob stopped roading the forest and moved 1S, to road there. Will explain later.



Settler will be produced in three more turns from Kwythellar, same as the SC at Caledor.


Demographics:

• The GNP jump from the early GSci Academy is pretty blatant in the graphs.
  I imagine the others will have all noticed it by now (it even shows in the culture graph +4cp/t from the Academy), will have to tread…carefully.
  
• Power graph confirms Selrahc’s story that he lost a warrior killing the barrow, although shouldn’t there be a jump from the GC he says he popped?
  
• With Iskender taking over the Hippus, will have to keep a look out for potential switching of tech mid-research.
  Sounds like he’s a strong player - for which I’m glad, might cause Bob some hassle down South.
  

[pocketbeetle]

Diplo:

Had a chat with Selrahc after trading maps on T66.

If you remember, part of our little deal was that I get settling rights around the sheep/rice area to the West of Selrahc.
I needed it because frankly, I wasn’t sure where else I could place a city.
You could argue I should have scouted more to the SouthEast of Kwythellar, but the combination of peaks/desert/coastal edge just put me right off.

So when Selrahc dials me up talking about a 3+ food site, I start listening…

(10:34:20 PM) Selrahc: Looking at the maps.. I think we can do you a better third city site.
(10:34:29 PM) pocketbeetle: Ooh hey
(10:34:36 PM) Selrahc: I'll send you the turn first
(10:34:37 PM) pocketbeetle: That's great, was worried you'd left for the night
(10:35:51 PM) Selrahc: I'm thinking you can get sheep/pigs/rice/reagents/oasis
(10:35:58 PM) Selrahc: Albeit with a bit of mountain/desert
(10:35:59 PM) pocketbeetle: wow sounds nice
(10:36:12 PM) pocketbeetle: I know where the sheep and rice are, where are the pigs etc?
(10:36:44 PM) Selrahc: I've sent you the turn, I imagine you'll see it...
(10:37:01 PM) Selrahc: Basically a little south
(10:37:24 PM) Selrahc: I think Northwind may have just seen them before death
(10:38:19 PM) pocketbeetle: Okay, will load it up. Give me five
(10:39:54 PM) Selrahc: Reagents actually wouldn't be in radius of sheep...

I was actually a touch disappointed when I looked at Selrahc’s maps after trading.
Sure his showed where the Calabim and Hippus were, but beyond the area South of his capital and a small section below what appears to be a jungle belt, he hasn’t scouted much more.
Equally he had said in a previous conversation that he didn’t know where any of the coasts were.
And looking at my maps, I suddenly realised that I’ve done a pretty good job of exploring the whole West -> East coastline in my effort to find Cull, so I gave him a lot of info.

That’s not a problem however, because when combined, our maps showed a very interesting spot.
The site he’s talking about is this:

To me, that makes the whole map trade worthwhile, all on it’s own.

(10:59:28 PM) pocketbeetle: Looking at the map. Well, if you didn't know about the coast at all, you do now!
(10:59:44 PM) pocketbeetle: Surprised at how close together bob and Archduke are
(11:00:01 PM) Selrahc: Bob pretty much refused to believe me.
(11:00:05 PM) pocketbeetle: lol
(11:00:20 PM) pocketbeetle: it's what, 2 cities at most?
(11:00:30 PM) Selrahc: Yeah.
(11:00:49 PM) Selrahc: They're both fairly isolated from everyone else though.
(11:01:07 PM) pocketbeetle: Just us in the North that are crowded
(11:01:36 PM) Selrahc: In theory that keeps the barbs down...
(11:01:59 PM) pocketbeetle: as for around the sheep. I agree, there's definitely a spot for a decent city there. Rice is a bit weak, take a while to get irrigation down there, quite a few peaks, not many hills. But it could work

I’m trying to play cool and talk it down a touch, but really I’m jumping up and down in my seat like a little kiddy on Christmas morning.

Call me paranoid here, but I was also trying to figure out why he’s suggesting good sites to me.
Things I considered:

• He could be trying to get me to settle an actual city close to him (rather than a settlement).
  But that makes no sense because both function normally if captured by him, plus I’m much more likely to abandon a settlement than a megacity.
  
  
• He could be trying to get me to settle a city in a decent location for him, for him to capture later.
  But, there’s no location around there that picks up, for a normal city BFC, more than 2 of the four resources (sheep/pigs/rice/oasis) on offer.
  
  
• He could be trying to get me to settle away from the sheep, so he can have that tempting ball of wool for himself.
  But then, after firing Legends, it’s going to be in my borders no matter what.
  
  
• Is he trying to stretch me defensively?
  This is the best one I could come up with, but even then, I’d just abandon a third city and defend at hill planted Caledor.
  

In short, I couldn’t see any reason, other than he’s being nice…which in itself worries me.
It doesn’t match up with a guy that intends to brutally sodomise a civ just because it had the misfortune of starting close to him.

So either I can’t see his angle, or we’re getting along very well at the moment.
Hmmm.

(11:02:01 PM) Selrahc: And when I was near bob it was a barbarian playground
(11:02:24 PM) pocketbeetle: really? Ah true. It's been quite quiet around my town, still got that Combat III bear though lol
(11:02:43 PM) Selrahc: Be good to explore the blank tiles around that spot.
(11:02:58 PM) Selrahc: Good jo bears won't attack in cultural borders
(11:03:11 PM) Selrahc: And when legend pops, there'll be a lot of cultural border
(11:03:43 PM) pocketbeetle: That was part of the attraction yes. Less barbs, easy to get a road network between us going
(11:04:09 PM) Selrahc: Yeah.
(11:04:35 PM) Selrahc: A giant beacon of pink, lighting the fog to ward against barbarian aggression
(11:04:52 PM) Selrahc: Nice to have to the west
(11:05:00 PM) Selrahc: Rather than an empty wasteland
(11:05:09 PM) Selrahc: full of orcs
(11:05:10 PM) pocketbeetle:
(11:05:16 PM) pocketbeetle: So in theory, would you be okay if I were to plant a city in the region East of the rice. I'd have to count the tiles before deciding.
(11:05:23 PM) pocketbeetle: Current plan was to create a settlement around the sheep, and scout around a bit more. But I'm not sure I'll find much better to be honest.
(11:05:43 PM) Selrahc: If you want to keep with your current plan, that's fine.
(11:05:53 PM) Selrahc: Just thought I'd highlight an alternative
(11:06:48 PM) pocketbeetle: I appreciate it. I'd have to work it out, obviously slightly harder to defend 3 cities, than 2 cities + expendable settlement, but they both cost the same in hammers *shrug*

Selrahc seems to be okay with me firing off Legends, pointing out the benefits of less barbarians etc (true).
He doesn’t seem to be broaching the subject of cultural clashes however, either because he’s being polite, or just not realising what the effect could be.
It wouldn’t surprise me if my worldspell steals at least the mana node away from his capital’s third ring (scroll down for picture), and if I do settle a city down there, there’s a good chance I may keep hold of it.

If he brings it up now, or before those Priests are solidly engaged with Sareln, he could probably negotiate something favourable for himself very easily.
But if he doesn’t mention it… well, don’t ask, don’t tell.

The conversation then meanders a bit, talking about the rest of the map.

(11:07:32 PM) pocketbeetle: Surprising
(11:07:40 PM) pocketbeetle: I'm not seeing many Unique features
(11:08:09 PM) Selrahc: I think Bob has one in his bfc
(11:08:23 PM) Selrahc: Since his city was able to grow two beyond happy cap
(11:08:30 PM) Selrahc: without being unhappy
(11:08:57 PM) Selrahc: But yeah, not seeing most of them.

*Lips sealed solidly shut*
He did cause me to quickly go back and re-evaluate my conclusion that it’s Bob who’s unhappy however:

• Hippus: Pop 5 capital, at happy cap.
  
  
• Illians: Pop 6 capital vs happy cap of 7.
  
  
• Calabim: Pop 7 capital vs happy cap of 5.
  
  
• Khazad: Pop 5 capital vs happy cap of 6.
  But gains variable happiness based on gold level. 0-49gp/city = +2 unhappy, 50-99 gp/city = +1 unhappy, starts with 50gp.
  I see no reason for Cull to have fallen below 50gp unless he’s done something really stupid. He doesn’t have a second city, is either last or second-last in military, and we know he’s been popping some huts. So I see no reason for him to be worse than +1 unhappiness, but it’s something to consider.
  
  
• It’s not me.
  

So I still think that the unhappy person is Bob, he’s two over his happy cap and the timing fits, but I should chat with Cull to make sure.

(11:09:11 PM) Selrahc: Makes me wonder if Darell has done something interesting.
(11:09:33 PM) Selrahc: Like an island site with Ygg, Dragon bones and remnanats
(11:09:58 PM) Selrahc: Be kind of hard to do fairly though.
(11:10:14 PM) pocketbeetle: Not sure. Agree it would be
(11:10:21 PM) Selrahc: Or maybe he just didn't enable all unique features
(11:10:27 PM) Selrahc: That's probably more likely
(11:10:48 PM) pocketbeetle: Again agree. Comments so far from him suggest he didn't edit the map loads
(11:11:22 PM) pocketbeetle: I kept on criticising my start for being riverless coastal, poor guy
(11:12:20 PM) Selrahc: I like my start.

I’m sure he likes his start!
Lots of forest, plenty of hills, river, 3 land based food, two of which are farmable, riverside incense!?!

Nothing is improved though, and he’s got no roads…
Has he still not built a worker?

I’ve also taken a look for anything that would have caused me to lose track of his stats not long after founding Jingle Bells.
Can’t see anything, no mushrooms, no tiles with weird yields, no ancient forest.
Strange. Maybe it was just the Pacifism hammer penalty confusing me?

(11:12:58 PM) pocketbeetle: I struggled a bit. I really wanted lots of river for enclaves. Wasn't to be though
(11:13:28 PM) Selrahc: Enclaves and their million year setup time.
(11:14:25 PM) Selrahc: They kind of work to paper over the cracks late game.
(11:14:28 PM) Selrahc: Economy wise.
(11:14:56 PM) pocketbeetle: Yeah. I know Aristograrian is much better most times. I still haven't completely decided which one I want to go with, but enclaves are flavoursome if nothing else
(11:15:34 PM) Selrahc: It depends what you're picking with adaptive
(11:15:49 PM) Selrahc: If you're picking financial, go aristograriansim
(11:16:05 PM) Selrahc: If not, it doesn't have enough oomph
(11:16:14 PM) Selrahc: for the long term anyway...
(11:16:22 PM) Selrahc: Short term it's still pretty nice
(11:16:38 PM) pocketbeetle: Really? Hmmm. I wonder what Bob will do for long term then. Since he's not financial
(11:16:58 PM) pocketbeetle: Or will he just try to avoid it reaching 'long term' I wonder?
(11:18:21 PM) Selrahc: Decius is basically the worst calabim leader... but calabim are generally good enough for it not to matter too much
(11:18:57 PM) Selrahc: Alexis can use philosophical to bulb along the tech tree to get to good units fast.
(11:19:16 PM) Selrahc: Flauros has one of the best economies in the game.
(11:19:26 PM) pocketbeetle: Decius...moves fast
(11:19:50 PM) Selrahc: Yeah.. good for Moroi.
(11:19:59 PM) Selrahc: Vampires can feast their way to commando anyway.
(11:20:18 PM) Selrahc: So not so useful for them.
(11:20:20 PM) pocketbeetle: That's what I thought. Didn't seem like a great combination
(11:20:34 PM) pocketbeetle: Maybe he was taking pity on us slightly by not choosing the most powerful
(11:20:49 PM) Selrahc: I had similar misgivings about not giving raiders to the Hippus
(11:20:56 PM) Selrahc: Perhaps.
(11:21:13 PM) pocketbeetle: lol. Tasunke. Would have been worrying
(11:22:08 PM) Selrahc: Yeah.
(11:22:36 PM) Selrahc: Raiders who can get anywhere in your empire in a turn.
(11:22:43 PM) Selrahc: *brr
(11:22:50 PM) Selrahc: Or shiver
(11:23:07 PM) pocketbeetle: Yu've got winterborn!
(11:23:16 PM) Selrahc: (So it doesn't look like I was saying BRB)
(11:23:30 PM) Selrahc: And defensive.
(11:23:32 PM) Selrahc:

Selrahc agrees with me that free Commando promotions on the Calabim is not mind-blowingly overpowered.

The overall theme of the conversation was:

• Check my current plans of Legends + settling in that location are fine with him (seems so).
  
  
• Avoid giving away too much of my tech plans etc.
  Hence silence on upcoming Adaptive switch, umming and ahhing over Aristograrianism.
  (I’m not interested in going for it, too boringly cookie-cutter for me. Enclaves or death!)
  
  
• Build up the perceived threat of Bob.
  Silence on the possibility of him having a Unique feature around his capital (no evidence for it so far), emphasise the room he has etc etc.
  

Map:

Sorry for the delay with this post, I had to figure out how to move the sky up.
As always, T-Hawk post here explains it, try to avoid making the same mistake as me – edit the BTS Civ4DetailManager.xml, not the base Civ4 one. ()

Stitching a couple of screenshots together gives this:

The only place you’re going to find a better map than that is in the lurker thread.

There doesn't appear to be any particular theme with it, no rare goodies in the centre, two sources of marble, no gold/gems, only one unique feature visible.
You can see the equator jungle belt running through the sugar.
If that really is the middle of the continent, Bob and the Hippus have a serious amount of land.
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[pocketbeetle]

Third City location:

At first I thought there was little to discuss on this one, that it clearly had to be here:

In terms of the general area, there’s very few things that could change my mind:
One is another food resource suddenly appearing in one of the four unexplored tiles within the BFC.
If so, I might have to rethink and consider the possibility that I’m being *too* greedy for the third megacity, maybe split a resource off for a fourth city.
The second outcome, one which could slow me down, is a barbarian lair of some type (ruins/barrow).
All I need to do is move Vanilla Ice onto the forested hill 1E of purple dot to get visibility however.

The earlier plan of founding a settlement around the sheep has been shelved in favour of creating a city in that area.
I was going to do that because I didn’t have sufficient map knowledge, now I do.
I would still like to found a defensive-ish settlement up in the river bend, North of the sheep, but that can be a future plan.
Bob the worker has started roading down from Caledor, he won’t finish in time for the settler, but should help speed up the journey by roading over the blocking forest.

I did consider the location 1E of the rice also and at first rejected it, based on the overlap with Caledor, the extra peaks, and the loss of hills from an already production starved spot.

However on second glance, it only loses one hill (a desert hill), the overlap is one tile only, and the extra peaks don’t necessarily matter if I use it as planned.
On the plus side, it’s an extra tile away from Selrahc’s capital = more safety, less chance of culture clashes and my worldspell annoying him.
(I think there’s the potential chance that casting Legends at Purple dot could steal a tile from his capital’s BFC. Not exactly neighbourly behaviour).
And finally, there’s always the hope of picking up something more in the fog, although I don’t think that’s very likely.

Whether I go for Cyan or Purple dot, the role will be the same.


Future role:

• 3 food resources, one of which is farmable and an oasis effectively makes 4.
  
• 5-6 hills that I know about (1 of which has pigs on) means I’m never going to have huge production.
  
• No rivers, but a decent amount of grassland that irrigation can be brought down to.
  
• 5+ peaks sucks, but understandable given the area, the desert is fine, that can be springed into plains tiles.
  
• Downsides:
  • Neither are on a hill, so harder to defend.
    
  • No fresh water.
    Trying to situate the city adjacent to the oasis doesn’t work.

All in all, low production, higher than average food, available irrigation, fewer tiles to work, sounds like a GP farm to me!

There’s sufficient production there to get basic infrastructure down, and I’ll probably use the city early on to fill out my worker/settler count, while waiting for the Construction tech to allow chain irrigation.
Later on, it’ll be able to produce military units via Drafting, the Conquest civic (food = hammers when building military) or plain old whipping (although that’s less likely).

Overall:

So now we have:

• Kwythellar: Heroic Epic port.
  Currently powering my research with its academy, but will fade soon.
  
• Caledor: Commerce + production, future capital.
  I guess it’s going to be Caledor that builds most of the wonders I want. Wish it had a few more hills, but it should suffice.
  
• Cyan/Purple dot: GP farm.
  Potential Tower of Complacency location (= Globe Theatre world wonder, religion specific to OO).
  
• Fourth city: Generalist production/commerce?

Reagents:

Regarding the Reagents that will just be outside the BFC of both dots:
They’re not a great resource for tile yield, roughly 2f/1h/2c when improved. Their importance lies in that they enable Archmages to be reached lategame, and those are important because only they can cast the level 3 spells.
Given this, I was slightly surprised that Selrahc seemed relaxed about handing it over, taking into account there are no other examples on our map so far.
Either way, I won’t need a settlement for them, Legends should bring it under cultural control.


Cyan vs Purple:

I’m not sure to be honest.
At first I thought purple was a slam dunk because of extra (miscounted) hills, but once I rechecked and realised the difference was only 1 desert hill, I started to lean towards Cyan. It -is- important to me that I don’t piss Selrahc off anytime soon.

Dedicated lurker input is welcome on this, and could easily sway the decision. =)

.

[Ilios]

Ah, back to lurking...


Legends gives you 450 culture, enough to pop borders twice (effectively filling your proposed dotmaps).

So, initially at least, you will not steal a tile from the Illian capital's BFC (you won't any time soon, too much cultural production on the second ring already). The issue will mostly be the mana node, which is in Silent Night's third ring and is more vulnerable to cultural annexation.

It all depends on what is hidden in the fog of Cyan's western borders. If there is some nice land to be had, I'd say we have a winner. If it is more peaks, well, I'd start negotiating with Charles...