[SPOILERS] ARRR Ye Scurvy Dogs! Hannah the Irin

[Mardoc]

Damn it, how did you expand so much while i'm stuck with only 7 cities =(

I think mostly it's the map. There's more room, particularly when the ocean is outward instead of inward. I've got cities with 4 and 5 land tiles each, while with your lakes you couldn't really do that. And I've been constantly expanding while you had to build troops - Mr. Yellow really helped there.

But yes, I'm at 13 cities now, with 4 more planned, not counting anything I might be able to take from Thoth. Which puts me currently tied with Thoth for most cities - WK and Nyktorion both have 10, I think, and Irgy has 7.

Hmm, a couple other pieces of news and thoughts - Nyktorion went Undercouncil as well, so now only WarriorKnight will be missing out on the goodies. And, I just had a fun thought - #1 on the Great Sage bulbing list is Arcane Lore. That's a 3600 beaker tech, that gives me a replacement Great Sage if I get there first, and allows me to train Hemah. I really should aim for Sorcery after Engineering, so that I can give that a whirl once I get my Sage from the Undercouncil. Even without the replacement Sage, it's probably the best use of a Sage, but if I do get one, then things are even happier.

Which means it's nearly time to decide on what my mana node will be, and hence how I want to get to Sorcery. Currently, I'm thinking my best choices are those the Amurites get - Body, Fire, or Metamagic(followed hopefully by a dispel and replacement with something else on the list). And I ought to be able to talk Irgy into loaning me Fire or Entropy at some point - worst comes to worst, I just buy it straight up with a luxury resource or money. So probably my best bet is Alteration -> Body node.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

From what little I've played, I actually prefer Falamar to Hannah. The appeal of the Lanun is the crazy high-yield pirate coves, and the more cities the more of them you can work. Financial gives you a +20% boost/cove. Expansive gives you access to twice as many. Yeah, the non-Fin coastal tiles are kinda junky, but you make up for it in sheer number of citizens and cottages.

[Mardoc]

From what little I've played, I actually prefer Falamar to Hannah. The appeal of the Lanun is the crazy high-yield pirate coves, and the more cities the more of them you can work. Financial gives you a +20% boost/cove. Expansive gives you access to twice as many. Yeah, the non-Fin coastal tiles are kinda junky, but you make up for it in sheer number of citizens and cottages.

I'm starting to agree. Spending 150 turns completely focused on settler pumping will do that. But yes - if I'd saved 70 foodhammers/city, for 17 cities...that's a good 1200 hammers worth, just on the settlers. That might have let me be finished expanding at T140 and have an army built, ready to hit Thoth, instead of having the end in sight and starting to think about an army. And Expansive also would have saved on Sea Havens, so I'd be more likely to have them, saving indirectly on workboats and compensating for the financial a bit with bonuses to my trade.

Financial's only a 20% bonus/cove at first - it goes down to just 14% as the cove grows up. Admittedly, I'm getting into the part of the game where it's going to play a larger role, now that my happiness cap is high enough that most cities are working several coast tiles or cottages or both.

Now, Raiders vs. Charismatic - I think I have to lean toward raiders still. But it's not obvious.

And on the other other hand - well, being number two is a good place to be, diplomatically. I'm getting within spitting distance of Thoth, but I'm still as far as I can tell, not anyone's target. Maybe Hannah's ability to come from behind will be what I want the most, instead of being obviously out front as Falamar.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Wait it's actually 25%, as vanilla coves are 2/0/4. But yeah, there's a conflict between #of citizens and yield/citizen, and getting more settlers out earlier gives more food and enhances your growth curve.

I'd still rather be #1 on demos all the time, and have straight up more production to pump swords or drowns or styges and galleons, and more commerce to unlock them. That's pretty much your only virtue, you don't get uber UUs like PZs or Vamps to let you come in from behind.

[Selrahc]

But yes - if I'd saved 70 foodhammers/city, for 17 cities...that's a good 1200 hammers worth, just on the settlers.

The expansive bonus only applies to hammers, not food.

[Mardoc]

The expansive bonus only applies to hammers, not food.

Ah! I thought I was missing something key.

Yeah, that makes the debate between Falamar and Hannah back into a debate.

[Mardoc]

Irgy sent me his Chaos mana this turn, so now my Adepts will be getting free Chaos and Air promotions. Soon the trade to WK for Corlindale will wear off and they'll be getting free Water promotions too! I think I can probably manage to build 6 or 7 before my doubled mana deals wear off, which is a decent start. We also traded maps, mostly so that he'd be getting foreign trade with me and hence wouldn't have any reason to cancel open borders.

I've been considering what else is worth getting for them - I might ask Thoth for Enchantment mana in exchange for the previous Water, and Irgy for Entropy - both manas that would make a significant difference in war, even with only Adepts to cast them.

I've sent Irgy a message asking what he wants for Ice, Fire, etc mana. I'm willing to send quite a bit, really - Pearls, my mana, maybe another luxury, maybe even cash. After all, we've seen what a Snowfall Hemah can do . We'll see if he bites.

Still no one has researched Mathematics, which should finish at end of turn and let me start on Engineering. I think Guild of Hammers might just work out!

And, in other news, Irgy voted Irgy and I voted me for Undercouncil chair, so we've got no head, and every resolution will be delayed . I think I might have to do some campaigning for the next one to make sure that doesn't happen again - I want my free GS and gambling houses and...

[Mardoc]

Well, Magellan is off! A Caravel, plus Seafaring, plus Fair Winds, is Move 6! Once I get to circumnavigation, I'll be even faster Assuming that Thoth hasn't been working on that all along with Cultists, but he seems to be preferring to scout the mainland with them.

I will build two more Caravel/adept pairs, one for the northern coast and the second for the southern coast. If the world turns out to be toroidal, then they can each take a brief break from opponent scouting to find each other.

In other news, Mathematics came in this turn, and I'm the first there. On to Engineering!

Lanun is still focused on economic growth - just about everywhere is somewhere in the path of market -> Elder Council -> Lighthouse -> Granary -> Smokehouse -> Sea Haven. With a few building Cultists, workboats, and warriors for the island. The only exceptions are MafiaBoy and Phoenix (adepts), Phiber Optik (caravels into Pagan Temple and Guild of Hammers), and Captain Crunch (one more settler, to finish off the island).

[Mardoc]

Another fairly boring turn. The only excitement was seeing Nyktorion sail up with a Caravel on my western coast, up by the Malakim. It was move 6! Which scared me for a moment, until I noticed that it has the Longshoreman promotion. Which means my Fair Winds Adept riding along with the ship instead of blessing it right before it left and staying home was probably a waste, but secondly, that I probably haven't been beaten to circumnavigation yet. Hopefully. I can't find any reference to it in the event log, anyway.

Aside from that, founded the third city on the island, Kwyjibo, only two remaining sites here and one marginal one on the mainland. Still no one with Mathematics, so the Guild is looking like a safe bet.

And, Irgy's going away, so it'll be an interesting question just what diplomacy remains in place when his replacement comes online. I'm definitely keeping my fingers crossed here for a Lewwyn type of player rather than a Mardoc type - want those Pyre Zombies killing Malakim!

[Mardoc]

Well, um, scratch that plan! No circumnavigation for Mardoc



Backing off to just two total caravels, then, one for the north, one for the south. Mathematics is still a monopoly for me, so I'm feeling good about the Guild of Hammers. I just need to get the rest of my civ into shape to benefit from it. Still building everywhere; I should be able to start whipping lighthouses in a few turns as the cities grow and the required whipped pop shrinks.

Thoth converted back to OO this turn; I wonder what he's got in mind? If he's just building some more cultists and stygians, it will be annoying but not the end of the world. If he goes for Saverous and Hemah, I will be greatly unamused.

And, some diplo:

[COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Hi all

Since the four of us have full contact now, it seems that we should start discussing the attack on Thoth with the whole group instead of having 6 different conversations so that we're all on the same page. I'll start by sharing this:

I can report that Thoth has switched back to OO last turn, so since he also has Fanaticism we can expect to see some Iron Stygian Guards from him. He did manage to build a few Paramanders to go along with his Iron Chariots, plus he can now build Cultists again. (also remember since Thoth also has Optics along with Iron, he can build Frigates). nyktorion, Irgy and I will need to build some Caravels/Privateers for naval defense. Mardoc, since your in OO yourself you have more options, but since Thoth clearly wants to control the seas and you are his main competition, you'll need to prevent him for achieving that as much as you can (we will of course help you to the best of our ability, but we won't have anywhere near as much naval power as you or Thoth).

He did research Corruption of Spirit a few turns ago, so there's a possibility of him switching to AV. Since he doesn't have a source of land collateral yet (to my knowledge), I indeed expect him to switch into AV (or Empyrean) at some point.

Thoughts/Comments?[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Lime"]
something that might be of interest: the mines of Gal-Dur are located in Golden Igloo (formerly: Torrolerial), which happens to be Thoth's border city towards me. I don't know if I'll be able to take or raze it - it also contains the Bone Palace, which makes my collateral (fireballs, maelstroms) less effective - but if I can, that may help us in our efforts.

Anyway, even if Thoth's navy is considerably strengthened by iron Stygian guards and frigates, I think we must match it (privateers could still be somwhat suitable for that, having good odds when attacking a frigate or Stygian guard 2on1), otherwise our backlines will become very vulnerable. Of course, when Mardoc's own OO armies (and the black wind?) can join in, it will be a great relief on that front.

I'm a bit puzzled by Thoth's decision to research corruption of spirit, but adopt OO. Maybe he is planning to get out some cultists/stygian guards first, and then upgrade some to Eidolons after switching to AV, building the infernal grimoire, and taking malevolent designs with it? Irgy, if there is a way you can get the grimoire before Thoth, I'd of course be quite happy about it

best regards,[/COLOR]