[Spoilers] Commodore as Darius of the HRE

[Ceiliazul]

I can't reply in depth at this time, but I don't think any half-hearted effort is going to do the job. Even two half-hearted attacks at once will fail to the inevitable rifle draft. And the war needs to be over before Egypt can build cavalry, or else it will go badly fr you.

Once again you're in the inenviable position of sharing a land border with your would-be enemy while your ally enjoys the safety of the sea. If you don't declare on Egypt, Yuri will fail. If you do declare, you darn well better go all in. And you need Yuri all-in too, which meas you reassure him with an NAP.

RL7 should without reservations jump in on Egypt side. That could be against Yuri (seems more likely) or against your own former French holdings. Your "Maginot Line" wnt hold up even against his standing army in that case.

In summary: if you think yuri will fail, then tech to galleons to take his land while he's weak. If you think Yuri will succeed, throw in with him and give him an ironclad NAP so he (and you), can be prepared for a 2-front war.

[Commodore]

I can't reply in depth at this time, but I don't think any half-hearted effort is going to do the job. Even two half-hearted attacks at once will fail to the inevitable rifle draft. And the war needs to be over before Egypt can build cavalry, or else it will go badly fr you.

Once again you're in the inenviable position of sharing a land border with your would-be enemy while your ally enjoys the safety of the sea. If you don't declare on Egypt, Yuri will fail. If you do declare, you darn well better go all in. And you need Yuri all-in too, which meas you reassure him with an NAP.

RL7 should without reservations jump in on Egypt side. That could be against Yuri (seems more likely) or against your own former French holdings. Your "Maginot Line" wnt hold up even against his standing army in that case.

In summary: if you think yuri will fail, then tech to galleons to take his land while he's weak. If you think Yuri will succeed, throw in with him and give him an ironclad NAP so he (and you), can be prepared for a 2-front war.

That's...bluntly put. Can't really disagree though. I'm less worried about RL7, as right now they're in the nice position of momentum going all their way. But yeah, Yuri and I need to make some real gains in this thing to still be in the game. No worries about Yuri's commitment, at least:



That's a lotta Jans. And galleons. And knights. And cats. No wonder why his GNP has gone down.



Not that mine's been shattering expectations either. Yuri will be playing this war smart, going for the raze rather than the capture in his initial strikes, and his next objective is Chem-Military Science for grenadiers. Foolishly, GES did not research nearly enough...I mean yes, you're in a great GNP situation right now, but notice a lack here? Actually, a couple? The roads will be two-move...sweet.



Yes, yes, that's very nice Egypt, I see your catapult there. Cover it with a rifle or I will flank that sucker.



In agreement that halfhearted efforts will probably screw me here, I swapped into military production in the heartland. Okay, and also Oxford, but hey, that's huge.



Elsewhere, my mines are actually getting some workers for the first time in a while. I love this place, it'll be swapping to building drydocks -> ironclads in a couple techs. Goodness knows health isn't a huge issue.



Up north, my cities work to claim their BFC tiles at least. Corinthia is culturally secure.



Cimmera will always be fighting poor thing, but I'm betting I can take that riverside grassland hill at least. a 2/2/3 tile (with windmill) is a nice tile.



At least I'm going to be MP-warfare qualified after all this. Should be a learning experience. Anyone know how much it costs to upgrade a trireme to an ironclad?

[Ceiliazul]

I like those rifles queued up everywhere. How many rifls will you have on th border on the first turn of the war?

Regarding egyptian research gaps, count on engineering and rifling to arrive before an attack can get to the core. Have you estimated the attackin forces of Yuri based on 602k raw power?

[Commodore]

I like those rifles queued up everywhere. How many rifls will you have on th border on the first turn of the war?

Regarding egyptian research gaps, count on engineering and rifling to arrive before an attack can get to the core. Have you estimated the attackin forces of Yuri based on 602k raw power?

Ask and ye shall receive. I'll only have three in Khauran itself, but more in galleys heading that way. I deflected Luddite's curiosity regarding any attacks my way, so thanks to the turn-and-a-half lag in NAP expiration I can see how Yuri's attack is going before jumping in.

me: Hey Yuri.

Yuri: hey hey
11:56 AM
me: I note with good cheer that Egypt lacks Engineering at the moment too.

Yuri: yeah

they're really behind on military

me: Thought you might want to know, Luddite is flashing a catapult at me right now.
11:57 AM
Those things don't draft though, and he can't have many yet.

Yuri: well, I don't think just one Cat will scare you

yeah, he got Construction after we cancelled the NAP, so 5-7 turns ago

me: Yeah, he's better cover it with a rifle or I'll flank it.
11:58 AM
Yuri: well, I don't think he'll get Rifling before T116

I certainly hope Rifling is not a 1-turn research for him
11:59 AM
me: I think it isn't.

Not sure what kind of overflow he has though.

Yuri: yeah

we got PP this turn, but I didn't count how long it will take us to get to Grenadiers now

5-6t I guess

and Cannons are that way too

me: Nice

Yuri: which is nice

me: Yeah, that's going to be good.
12:00 PM
He's not going to be able to afford to research much further.

I think we're safe from canons thus far.

Do RL7's galleons keep their extra movement?
12:01 PM
Yuri: no, I don't think so. they have 4 movement, I believe that's what they normally have

me: Ah, darn

At least the good news is he still lacks compass.

I'll have ironclads the same time he has frigates.

Yuri: nice!
12:02 PM
me: Heh

Yuri: I bet he's regretting skipping all those techs now

me: Although they still will have no idea how to use a compass, either.

Yep, that's got to be hurting right now.

Yuri: well, we don't know how to use compass too

good thing RL7 provided Galleons with the crew

me: Yeah

Yuri: or they would be lost by now
12:03 PM
me: That's going to be a great surprise.

Yuri: hope so

I'm only worried he keeps a huge Hereditary Rule garrison in Ballast Point

me: What are your current force numbers?

Seven mentioned last they saw it was a single warrior.
12:04 PM
Yuri: 9 Jans/6 Cats on the Galleons, something similar in the hub, 3-4 Knights enroute to the hub. more being built

me: Nice.

So it'll be land -> attack?

Or amphibious assault?

Yuri: if it's a single Warrior, it will be amphi
12:05 PM
if they have something better than an Axe, then land first

me: Right

Well, I think he's worried in my direction.
12:06 PM
I've been making sure he sees those rifles.

I almost had a really bad moment, though

Forgot that I had nothing to garrison my island city.

:P

Yuri: oh

that could be painful
12:07 PM
me: Rifle + War Chariot in route.

It'll be enough to stop opportunism, although nothing determined.

Fortunately, the city is on a hill.

Yuri: yeah, that should be good enough. he doesn't have good ships after all
12:08 PM
me: Yep

Yuri: I know for sure he's worried about us too. he has a War Chariot in our land, which saw part of the forces moving towards the hub. I didn't protest, because I want him to concentrate forces on the hub, and leave the core unprotected

but he sent me a message this morning, asking for a chat

good thing we're in different timezones
12:09 PM
because if we do get in a chat, and he asks if we plan to attack, I don't know what to say other than the truth

me: It's reasonable.

Just make sure you talk about the hub too.



Yuri: of course
12:10 PM
I won't let the Galleons info leak

me: He might try to make some kind of deal.

Yuri: yeah, but I don't see what he can offer, with city gifting banned

we invested in the military, we want some land in return

me: He can see how much you've whipped/drafted, might think he can arrange something.
12:11 PM
That would be foolish of him, but I don't know.

Yuri: well, can't blame him for trying

me: My interpretation was that was mostly city-gifting to third parties.

Yuri: he knows he can't win this war unless he can postpone the attack
12:12 PM
me: He'll have grim threats I'm sure, he threaten me with "rifles and frigates"

I think slightly overestimating how fast they could hit those techs.

Yuri: erm, frigates, really??
12:13 PM
he needs to research Engineering-Chemistry and Compass-Optics-Astro for Frigates

that's 7-8 turns at least

me: Right

Yuri: he'll be dead by that time

me: Or at least no long researching at that clip.
12:14 PM
I wonder if they were thinking of normal or large drafting limits.

Luddite's last MP game in this era was on a huge map.

Where he could draft twice as many rifles per turn.
12:15 PM
Yuri: yeah, don't think he could make this mistake, but who knows

and it's not enough to just draft them

without Engineering, it will take ages to get them in position

even with Engineering it won't be very quick

me: Exactly.

Yes, rifles beat Jans
12:16 PM
But not enough for a 1:3 ratio.

And his old stuff is so much trash.

Yuri: yeah, and we'll have Grenadiers in the 2nd wave

me: Exactly.

Yuri: if we started 5 turns later, it would've been so much harder

me: Which are quite nice against rifles.
12:17 PM
Yeah, this was a tight window.

Every war this game has been a tight window.

Yuri: true

do you know if Muskets/Jans upgrade to Grenadiers, or to Rifles only?
12:18 PM
me: It's grens if rifling isn't researched.

Let me double-check.

Yuri: hah, hope so

CivFanatics shows Rifles only
12:19 PM
me: Yeah

Odd.

Maces and pikes both upgrade to grens though

Yuri: yeah
12:20 PM
I know Maces don't upgrade to Muskets

which is also sad

but oh well

me: No issue, just wait for those to upgrade them to Grens

Yuri: I don't have Maces, that was a regret from a different game

me: Jans can be shifted to defenders, they crush knights.
12:21 PM
Ah, gotcha

Might want to make pikes then

As the cheapest upgrade unit.

The good news is as non-draftees, they're start with 5xp

Yuri: it's too late now, we won't build any more 1-movers until Grenadeers

Jans will be only drafted
12:22 PM
me: Might want to at least prebuild some to get auto-upgraded in the queue.

Yuri: yeah, I'll look into that

me: I'm doing that with cats->canons.

Yuri: should work fine
12:23 PM
and you can whip them immediately after the tech is discovered without a penalty, right?

me: Did that with my first round of muskets -> rifles too.

Yep, immediately.

Yuri: cool

me: Yeah, it's a nice deal.

Yuri: for a non-draftable unit that's very important

me: Exactly.
12:24 PM
You'll be getting a very nice 2nd wave if the timing is right.

That should come as a surprise.

Yuri: yeah, hope so

pity cannons won't be in by that time

but you can't get everything
12:25 PM
me: Yeah, it'll probably be amphibious time by then anyway.
12:26 PM
Yuri: not sure... and in any case, taking Stone and Alpine will be a challenge

me: Yeah
12:27 PM
If he's down to just that rump though, it'll be just a slow siege.

Yuri: true
12:28 PM
me: Hrm

One thing to check is to make sure that pikes or maces auto-upgrade to grens.
12:29 PM
Need to check that about triremes too.

Yuri: well, I don't think they have a choice

although yeah, they could just stay as they are

not autoupgrade
12:30 PM
me: Worth checking, just in case.

Yuri: will do
22 minutes
12:52 PM
me: Luddite is on and chatting
12:53 PM
I'm talking about the hub threat you guys represent.
12:54 PM
Yuri: yeah, he's chatting with me too

trying to convince me not to attack

as expected
12:55 PM
me: I told him the truth about one thing: I bet you guys would have payed in blood to be Portugal.

Carracks would have made everything simpler.
12:56 PM
Yuri: heh, that's for sure

I also complained to him that RL7 have Galleons and we can't do anything about them

me: I told him I'm reinforcing my hub area, also a true thing.
12:57 PM
Yuri:
12:59 PM
me: I told him we have a short-term NAP, have you mentioned anything?

Yuri: about a NAP between us?

no

he didn't mention you to me

me: Good.

I'll leave it vague then.

That's enough to leave a mark. I'm thinking if I join all-in, we're going to be able to push this. Unless Yuri is stopped butt-cold the first turn, he'll have 1 city taken, 1 razed as of the turn of attack. I myself won't be pushing further than New English until I get some sea mobility. I am curious now about how the auto-upgrades will work, need to make sure of all that.

[Commodore]

Also, and this is completely irrelevant, please note, Pindicator, that you're once again the worker aggressively roading towards the intended victim of Hyborian aggression. Please don't let that on to Luddite if you guys do team up in PBEM 23. :neenernee

[Commodore]

Insomnia + air conditioner broken = bonus turn report!

Here's a little snapshot of what's happening in the world now. The RNG of names has a nice sense of rhythm and rhyme, yo.



The golden age fading plus Egypt getting nervous makes for better-looking demos this time around. Hey, now that GNP is more important than MFG/CY, my MFG/CY numbers are finally coming up. Need like another 1/3 blob and those numbers will sing.



I'm adjusting my hills slightly due to windmills giving an extra hammer and railroads being 3 techs away. If it's on a river and I need food, I'll turn a mine into a windmill for +1/-1/+2 due to the financial bonus kicking in. Zamora, for example (also have lumbermilled the forest to give a gh mine equivalent).



I realize I haven't posted any nice big overview shots lately, so, in lieu of requests:

My core is finally "done" worker-wise, so I'm roading in anticipation of railroads (eta, 8 turns). All the big cities here are largely done with improvements and nearly maxed out for growth, about to work on nothing but rifles and canon until levees and factories come up. Forget losses elsewhere, this core remains intact, I'm still in this, and if even a raiding force gets in, that's game.



The South-East, AKA, the battlefront. Luddite leaves New English as open as this in three turns he's losing it, and soon these two Hyborian cities will be staging naval invasions towards his core blob. Khauran is winning the "Empire's most whipped" award currently. I think I'll celebrate by switching to catapult next turn and then whipping it.



My distant North-East, The Hub or Greenland. Brythunia needs a little whipping in its life soon, and Hyperborea will follow after I chop out yonder forge. Really, unless one of these guys is working a resource tile I could care less about For all its crappy tiles though, this area is an economic powerhouse entirely worth fighting a war for, what with silvers/furs/IC-TRs.



Finally, the north, the French Peninsulas. For all this area's small size, the plentiful food and nice hammers make it already a net profit. Pictish Point, weirdly enough, is going to be a great commerce site once emancipation supercharges those five cottages. I love Financial/Org on this map. Next infra for it? Rathaus, lighthouse, forge, and finally factory. Yes, that's a hammer savings, thank you very much!



Overall, my empire is balanced and fairly strong, with a very jack-of-all-trades setup of average commerce, hammers, and food. Now if I can affordably add a little Egypt to it, we're really cracking.

[Commodore]

Well, it's Turn 117 now. D-day for the Ottomans, T-minus 2 for us. The Egyptians have rifles, it just remains to be seen if that will be enough for them. At the moment, I'm thinking no.



As an aside, something I really wish I had noticed, oh, ten turns ago. See that city tile up there? One in five New Englishers considers himself Hyborian. If I had pushed a little more culture, I might have been able to flip certain tiles in between the two cities...like, I dunno, a critical road tile that would enable me to one-move the city with rifles and canon?

Culture battles with the Sistine are fun. Cimmera, for all its associations with barbarity, is actually pretty darn cultured, and with the theater +artist I think I'll be able to contest that village and the plains hill mine too. This kind of thing must be annoying the hell out of RL7, if I really wanted to I could swipe the horses too.



I hope they don't take exception, because the bulk of my collateral is headin' east. Still making more, of course.



I'm reasonably sure that I can at least hold the choke from anything as daft as an overland invasion. There are definitely times when I love Civ for the anachronisms you see, like my flock of galleys streaming down or the mass of cats bunched into defensive range of Khauran while riflemen stand ready to guard the bloody place.



That galley flock, once I can cover them with ironclads, will be my primary attack vector. Right now I'm actually thinking of heading south and hitting his blob's underbelly, for all that the northern area is a richer prize. Raze then resettle, my boys, none of this batty "capture" stuff. Oppressed Hyborian citizenry of New English excepted.

[Commodore]

If, and I mean if, I win this thing, it's going to be diplomatic victory.

[COLOR="LemonChiffon"]
To: me, Yuris, Luddite.

By flagrantly breaking a long-term agreement, RL7 has allowed yuris to make a successful landing in my core.

Here is my advice: do not trust 7. Apparently he is much more Krill than novice, which comes as a good lesson for everyone at RB in future games.

I advised Luddite to basically walk away from the game. I don't know what he will do, but as far as I am concerned, you two should take all my land and then attack RL7 from every angle possible.

Good luck to both of you.

GES[/COLOR]

Roight. So, I had some sort of appropriate image here...



After playing Turn 119 and restraining my mad evil cackling, I replied.

[COLOR="Yellow"]Whoa, so Seven fully broke it? Dully noted, and he's in the Krill list. If you truly are going to walk out, this will massively warp things if 7 can capture your core. Taking your advice, I have moved in on New English (slightly disappointingly, there are many warriors there, meaning my culture isn't going to do the job alone, although more than 1/5 New Englishermen consider themselves Hyborian). I'll also be beefing up my northern holding/coastal cities, as my short-term NAP with them might mean less than thought. Yuri, might be wise if you do the same likewise.

Otherwise, good luck to all the combatants and may the Financial player win.
-Commodore[/COLOR]

I also played a turn or two, during which stuff happened.

One thing was a minor little tech called "Steel", which made my improvements look ugly and modern, but finally gave my workers some pants.



Also, about fifty turns too late, my people have finally written something helpful. Zingara needs no more farms, methinks, those last two grasslands get turned into cottages.



Aquilonia, with Oxford, is beyond-ridiculous in beaker output. I'll add a couple-dozen more with another monastery as soon as I can without wasting half a billion hammers.



Otherwise, events happened out and about in the world. That scientist you see Yuri getting is slated for RL7 in payment for galleons. Owie.

Turn 118:


Turn119:


Going all-out for Steam Power (and Oxford finally going) makes for demos that me likely. Vroom vroom goes the economy!



That's about it, right?





Oh yeah. Also declared war on a superpower.



If he mass-upgrades, I'll be facing 6 rifles with a mildly catted stack of three knights, two canon, a catapult, two ground-based rifles, and two more in that galley. A fifth could also be brought to bear if I yank 'em out of Khauran. He mass-upgrades, I'll just be waiting one extra turn.

Now after this things will get interesting.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Quote:

To: me, Yuris, Luddite.

By flagrantly breaking a long-term agreement, RL7 has allowed yuris to make a successful landing in my core.

Here is my advice: do not trust 7. Apparently he is much more Krill than novice, which comes as a good lesson for everyone at RB in future games.

I advised Luddite to basically walk away from the game. I don't know what he will do, but as far as I am concerned, you two should take all my land and then attack RL7 from every angle possible.

Good luck to both of you.

GES

Well, you know what I'm rooting for I won't say any more for fear of spoilers, but I'm eagerly reading updates as they come.

[Ceiliazul]

I guess GES thought there was a agreement about selling units. I'm interested to see the wording on that, but right now I'm not overly concerned about RL7's "treachery".

Now that the war is officially afoot, dialogue with RL7 is key. A concerned face about the GES accusation and phrases like "knocking down the leader" might produce something from the Mali...