Okay, sounds good! Note that teching AH still works with the previously-posted worker/city micro; it's just that we'd produce the Settler for Toregene on the same turn we discover horses, so we wouldn't have a road in place toward a possible horse city. (Unless we lucked into getting them right at a site we wanted anyway - or at Muqa or Borte of course!)
If we do want to delay the Settler, giving us more time after discovering horses to prep the site for its arrival (and get another warrior out) the plan could look something like this:
T38: Borte is now size 4 and switches to building a Worker, working Cow + Clam + Rice + Copper Forest. Muqa is now size 2 and resumes building its Barracks, working the Corn and the plains forest. The Worker on the forest south of Muqa begins a Chop.
T39: The Worker on the Copper completes its Chop.
T40: Worker is complete at Borte; it moves SW-NW to the copper and begins a Mine. The other Worker on the same tile also contributes to the Mine. Borte resumes its Warrior, working Cow + Clam + Rice + Oasis.
T41: Warrior is complete at Borte. REVOLT to Slavery. Muqa WHIPS its Barracks (2 pop to 1) and works the Corn. The Worker by Muqa moves 1W to the Sheep and begins a Pasture. The workers on the copper complete the Mine. Borte begins another Warrior and works Cow + Copper + Clam + Rice.
T42: Barracks complete at Muqa, which is now size 2. It begins a Work Boat, working Corn + Plains Forest. One of the Workers on the Copper begins a Road. The other moves E to the river grassland just beside Borte, begins a Road, and CANCELS orders.
T43: Warrior is complete at Borte, which is now size 5; it resumes its Settler, working Cow + Copper + Clam + Rice + Oasis. The Worker on the Copper completes the Road. The worker between Borte and the copper moves NE to another part-roaded river grassland and completes the road. The Worker on the Sheep continues the Pasture, but then CANCELS orders.
T44: The Warrior in Muqa's queue is now a part-built Spearman (still with just 1 hammer invested, but with its decay timer reset to 0). The Worker on the Copper moves E to the part-roaded river grassland and completes the Road. The Worker north of Borte moves 3NE to the sheep and completes the Pasture. The other Worker on the Sheep moves NE-NW to the Silver and begins a Mine. Muqa begins an Axeman(?), working Corn + Sheep.
T45: AH is complete. Tech Pottery. Horses are revealed. The Worker on the Silver continues to Mine, but the other Workers may move in preparation for roading toward a horse city (Toregene). Reduce Research slider to 0%.
T46: Muqa is now size 3 and resumes its Work Boat, working Corn + Sheep + plains forest. Borte WHIPS its Settler (5 pop to 4) and works Cow + Copper + Clam + Rice. (Note this whip does NOT speed up the Settler at all! The purpose of the whip is actually to pour a bunch of hammers into the next Worker so we can complete it in a single turn.)
T47: Settler complete at Borte. Borte builds a Worker. The Worker on the Silver completes the Mine. Muqa resumes its Axeman, working Corn + Sheep + Silver.
T48: Worker complete at Borte. Borte builds a Settler. Muqa resumes its Work Boat. Worker on the Silver begins a Road.
T49: Muqa is now size 4. Worker on the Silver completes the Road. Muqa works Corn + Sheep + Silver + plains forest....
(I'm not super happy about what Muqa is doing in this plan; there just aren't enough hammers at that city early on for it to do everything it wants to do. I'll think about further alternatives for it....)
Our warrior continues his journey to the south. He revealed a couple of jungle tiles this turn. Both workers are chopping in order to speed up the development of our cities. Of the two micro plans I prefer the first one I think. We shouldn`t delay our third settler too long. Having a road in place for that city when it`s built is not that important. And we`ll have plenty of workers in a few turns anyway, to get those horses online.
Good points. There are a number of places where Horses could appear where the first plan (in spite of producing the Settler faster) wouldn't actually speed up the founding of Toregene because the Settler would have to wait for the Warrior to catch up in order to be safe from wolves, but if we only count non-forest flatland within 5 tiles of Borte, I think there should only be 10 such locations, compared to 18 where the first plan builds the city sooner. If we include non-forest hills, that just adds 4 more possible tiles to each side.
Just to propose another alternative: there's a simple possibile modification to the second plan: Under that plan, we could whip the Settler (for 1 pop) as soon as T45 - the turn we discover AH. This means if we find (based on the location of Horses) that we want to produce the Settler a turn sooner than originally planned, we can do so, without delaying the following Worker (which becomes a two-turn build but starts one turn sooner) at the cost of a few overflow hammers into the build after that.
Regardless, the plans I posted can definitely be improved, especially at Muqa; I'll post something when I've got it worked out in better detail. One key question though: If there are horses in Borte's or Muqa's BFC, and any others nearby aren't in places likely to change our minds, where would you want to plant Toregene?
Updated microplan candidates, with some small improvements and a clearer picture of the choices, are below. Note I recommend a change to the tiles worked at Muqa this turn (turn 39) regardless of which plan we ultimately follow! As for the plans though, I'm honestly not sure which I prefer. Have a look!
Both candidates start the same way:
T39: The Worker on the Copper completes its Chop. Muqa works Corn + grassland forest (the one that's currently being chopped).
Then the continuation for Post-Copper Candidate 1: Gets the Settler out one turn sooner, which also means it can plant Toregene one turn sooner given a little more than half of the expected/possible Horse locations. Gets the next Worker out two turns sooner, and can put ten hammers into something (maybe an Axeman?) if we want it to reach size 4 by T48 and can spare an MP unit to allow this. Alternatively, it could stay at size 3 for longer, preferring more hammers in its next build over (faster) growth. In detail:
T40: Worker is complete at Borte; it moves SW-NW to the copper and begins a Mine. The other Worker on the same tile also contributes to the Mine. Borte resumes its Warrior, working Cow + Clam + Rice + Forest Hill. the Worker near Muqa completes its Chop. Muqa resumes working Corn + plains forest. If we want to be able to cover both Borte and Toregene later on, the scouting Warrior must start back toward Borte (specifically toward the cow tile) this turn!
T41: Warrior is complete at Borte. REVOLT to Slavery. Muqa WHIPS its Barracks (2 pop to 1) and works the Corn. The Worker by Muqa moves 1W to the Sheep and begins a Pasture. The workers on the copper complete the Mine. Borte resumes its Settler and works Cow + Copper + Clam + Rice.
T42: Barracks complete at Muqa, which is now size 2; it momentarily resumes its Warrior, but the Workers on the Copper begin and complete a Road, and Muqa then starts an Axeman, working Corn + plains forest.
T43: Muqa's build queue now includes a Spearman (still with just 1 hammer invested but a decay counter of 0) instead of a Warrior, but it continues to build its Axeman. (The spear will probably/hopefully never be finished, but losing the 1h is better than being unprepared in case of an emergency...) The Worker on the Sheep continues the Pasture, but then CANCELS orders. One of the Workers on the Copper moves 1E to the river grassland between Borte and the copper, begins a Road, and CANCELS orders. The other moves E-NE to the river grassland north of Borte, "wasting" a worker turn on movement. (Since we don't know where the horses will turn up, the Workers would be more or less at loose ends here unless we do this to - ultimately - speed up Muqa's silver, both improving our commerce and allowing both Muqa to grow EoT48 without going over the happy cap. If Borte doesn't have an MP unit - e.g. if one Warrior keeps scouting or dies to barbs and another is needed to cover Toregene - the silver mine will also be needed so that Borte can grow by T49.)
T44: Borte WHIPS its Settler (4 pop to 3) and works Cow + Copper + Clam. The Worker on Muqa's Sheep moves NE-NW through the city to the Silver and begins a Mine. The Worker just north of Borte WAITS while the Worker west of the city moves 1NE to the same tile and completes the Road. THEN the Worker who started on that now-roaded tile moves 3NE to the Sheep and completes the Pasture. Muqa works Corn + Sheep. A Warrior moves to the Cows for maximum flexibility.
T45: AH is complete; Horses are revealed. Tech Pottery. Settler is complete at Borte, which starts a Worker. The Worker on the Silver continues the Mine, but the other Workers move to help with Toregene and/or horses. Reduce Research slider to 0%.
T46: Worker complete at Borte, which starts an Axeman(?) - tiles worked will depend on the location of Toregene. Muqa is now size 3 and starts a Work Boat, working Corn + Sheep + plains forest. Increase Research slider to 100%.
T47: Worker on the Silver completes the Mine. Muqa resumes its Axeman and works Corn + Sheep + Silver.
T48: Muqa resumes its Work Boat, WHIPS it (3 pop to 2), and works Corn + Sheep. The Worker on the Silver begins a Road. IF Borte has an MP unit AND gave up the Copper (perhaps to Toregene) it could now be up to size 4; otherwise, it can still grow by next turn thanks to the silver that's about to be hooked.
And for Candidate 2: Completes an extra Warrior. Gets the Settler out one turn later than candidate 1, though that does mean another turn for units and workers to prepare the ground before the city is founded (this might not matter too much, depending on the city location.) Gets the next Worker out two turns later, but is already size 4 and can put 4 hammers of overflow into its next build (AFTER "demultpilication") - so that in effect, it gets us a fourth warrior and 6 commerce, at the cost of 6 hammers, maybe a worker turn or two (depending on how you count; the above plan had to waste one, but the two missing from this plan both come after horses are discovered) and (probably, though not necessarily) one turn of existence for Toregene. In detail:
T40: Worker is complete at Borte; it moves SW-NW to the copper and begins a Mine. The other Worker on the same tile also contributes to the Mine. Borte resumes its Warrior, working Cow + Clam + Rice + Oasis. the Worker near Muqa completes its Chop. Muqa resumes working Corn + plains forest.
T41: Warrior is complete at Borte. REVOLT to Slavery. Muqa WHIPS its Barracks (2 pop to 1) and works the Corn. The Worker by Muqa moves 1W to the Sheep and begins a Pasture. The workers on the copper complete the Mine. Borte begins another Warrior and works Cow + Copper + Clam + Rice.
T42: Barracks complete at Muqa, which is now size 2; it swasps to building a Work Boat, working Corn + plains forest. One of the Workers on the Copper begins a Road, but the other moves 1E to the grassland between Borte and the Copper, starts a Road there instead, and CANCELS orders.
T43: Warrior is complete at Borte, which is now size 5 and resumes its Settler, working Cow + Copper + Clam + Rice + Oasis. The Worker on the Copper completes the Road. The other Worker near Borte moves 1NE to the part-roaded river grassland just north of the city and completes the Road. The Worker on the Sheep continues the Pasture, but then CANCELS orders. Muqa swaps to building an Axeman.
T44: The Worker on Muqa's Sheep moves NE-NW through the city to the Silver and begins a Mine. The Worker just north of Borte moves 3NE to the Sheep and completes the Pasture. Muqa works Corn + Sheep. The Worker on the Copper moves 1E to the part-roaded grassland between the copper and city, and completes the Road. One of Borte's Warriors moves to the Cows for maximum flexibility; the other remains in Borte. (Note the Worker closest to Borte is also much more flexibly and centrally positioned here than I could manage with the other plan.)
T45: AH is complete; Horses are revealed. Tech Pottery. Borte WHIPS its Settler (5 pop to 4) and works Cow + Copper + Clam + Rice. The Worker on the Silver continues the Mine, but the other Workers move to help with Toregene and/or horses. Reduce Research slider to 0%.
T46: Settler complete at Borte, which starts a Worker. Note it can give up its Clam or Rice to Toregene without delaying the Worker. Muqa is now size 3 and works Corn + Sheep + plains forest. Increase Research slider to 100%.
T47: Worker on the Silver completes the Mine. Muqa works Corn + Sheep + Silver.
T48: Worker complete at Borte, which builds an Axeman(?) - tiles worked depend on the location of Toregene. Muqa resumes its Work Boat, WHIPS it (3 pop to 2), and works Corn + Sheep. The Worker on the Silver begins a Road.
Finally, just to provide a sense for what the plan is leading to with Muqa, here's a partial microplan going forward from where the candidates above leave off:
T49: Work Boat is complete at Muqa, which is now size 3 and resumes its Axeman, working Corn + Sheep + Silver after the Worker on the Silver completes the Road. The Work Boat moves 2E.
T50: Borte's borders expand to its 3rd ring. Workboat moves 2E for some additional scouting. The Worker on the Silver moves 1E to the Corn and begins a Road.
T51: Muqa is now size 4 and works Corn + Sheep + Silver + plains forest. Work Boat moves back to within 1 tile of the Fish (e.g. N-SW or S-NW or just 2W - whatever works given the geography). Worker on Muqa's Corn completes the Road.
T52: Muqa's borders expand to its second ring. Work Boat moves to the Fish and Nets them. Muqa works Corn + Sheep + Silver + Fish. Worker on Muqa's Corn moves 1NE to the Cow and begins a Pasture.
T53: Axeman is complete at Muqa, which is now size 5...
One More Thing: Note these plans are getting a lot more complicated as our number of cities, workers, population, and so forth increase. Your strategic planning is ultimately the most important for our success, and we're rapidly approaching the point where individual micro-decisions are much, much less important in comparison. This is definitely a good thing, especially as I don't expect to be able to maintain a comprehensive microplan much past about turn 50 - though I'll be happy to create smaller-scale ones if you'd like me to do so for e.g. the production of a wonder, the development of an important new city, or something else that you think needs detailed work to forward our strategic goals.
(Anyway , time to get to work on the next story... Well, the next story after the one I wrote last week, that I'll probably post sometime tomorrow since I think I found all the illustrations I wanted!)
Well, well, well. Take a look at that. We`re not the only ones to settle up on a neighbor! I feel that we`ve been very unlucky with the players we`ve met so far. GJ is a strong player as well. Btw - his warrior has + 10 % defense, so he probably saw our borders and went back to that hill for maximum vision. Something tells me that we`ll not be able to play in our sandbox forever. I put all espionage points on GJ as we`ll need his graphs sooner rather than later.
If horses were to turn up in a convenient place I would at least prior to this turn consider going NW with Toregene between the wet corn and the pigs, as I believe it would be a fast starter. (There are two options up there, both are ok I think). However, with the new information on our neighbor situation maybe an aggressive plant towards GJ could be possible instead? We`ll have the strategic resources hooked soon enough. Maybe we could even consider rushing Joey. Maybe. Would a city on the tile that GJs warrior stands (as our fourth or even third city) be too aggressive? We definitely need to set up a border down there as soon as we can.
Of the two proposed micro plans I slightly prefer the second one actually, as we need to produce a few units soon. I also like that we keep Borte at a bigger size than the first plan. The delayed settler could be a minor problem, but I don`t think it matters too much.
And the plans have been very helpful! I certainly understand that you can`t make them forever.
Wow - exciting news! If we're spaced with GJ the same way we are with dtay, his second city is in the equivalent spot to 3W of Muqa. (The Muqa-equivalent spot would be on water in our south though.)
Good idea putting all of our EP on GJ.
Planting on the tile where GJ's warrior is standing would be significantly more aggressive than Muqa (or his city) - one tile closer, and heavily overlapping BFCs with his now-existing city. His warrior is a sentry, fogbuster, and spawnbuster, neatly explaining why we haven't seen any animals down here.
We may have to rethink the southwest dotmap. The two cities we have planned there (including that aggressive hill plant) can be forked by a fast-mover stack on the tile 1W of the Copper, which he is likely to control.
I'm happy with the second microplan too. I'm glad making these has been helpful!
I shouldn't be up this late, so I'll defer the other questions until I'm properly awake again. Have a great day!
I`ve been thinking a bit about that dot map. We don`t really want a cultural border war with GJ right now. How about moving the city 2E from the tile where his warrior stands . It won`t get +25 % from the hill, but if GJ wants to attack it he`ll have to either attack with a river penalty or move on flatland to get to our city. I still like that city 5 SW of Borte, as it will be very good once it expands borders. If GJ messes with that dot map we could build on the plains hill a bit north of that city site. The worst case scenario would be Greece stealing our spot 5 SW of Borte, but that would be incredibly risky. It`s only five tiles away from our capital after all! Imo we should prioritize the city with corn in its first ring, as it would (likely) seal off a good chunk of land for us to settle later.
Note that there is a jungled copper SE of our warrior that is difficult to spot on the screenshot.
Our scouting warrior is on its way back to the capital. A quick look on the top 5 cities of the world tells us that GJ now has a size 6 city! I guess he uses CHA to grow his cities big. Next turn that copper mine will come online. Hopefully our mfg should be competitive with the top civs then.
Ack - sorry; I should have said: The scouting Warrior doesn't need to return to the capital if we're following candidate plan 2: It certainly can, but it's free to continue scouting since we'll be getting a couple of warriors out of the capital anyway. It had to turn back under version 1 only because we wouldn't otherwise be able to cover all our cities. That Warrrior can either try to get a look at GJ's city, explore the southeast region further, move around to check out the southwest (the planned sheep/silver/fish city site still has 6 fogged tiles in its BFC!) or some combination.
Planting a city in that region is going to be complicated. It would take a lot of advance worker labor for us to plant E of the corn - and even so, our supply lines to such a city would be long. Using roads in his territory, he could actually still fork this city with a city 5SW of Borte with fast-movers, and there'd be nowhere we could position a slow-mover stack to reinforce either in a single turn until Engineering anyway. This border is just incredibly awkward: Unlike dtay, who can plant on the bananas 4N of Muqa to contest Muqa's northern tiles, we don't really have a good option to establish a decent border here: The positioning of that line of hills makes it almost impossible for us to plant a defensible set of cities down there, and completely impossible to have just a single city on the border. (Well, maybe if we do rush GJ's city ... but I don't think we'll be able to do that before he can whip Phallanxes and spears....)
[EDIT: Wait, you said size SIX? Incredible - although that actually makes more sense from the demos than if it were at size 5. Meanwhile, Krill's capital is size 5, founded in 3880, right? Also, I think GJ's second city is at size 3, giving him 9 population across his empire!] He doesn't have BW yet, but I expect him to get it within the next turn or two; all that population, with Charismatic, is just waiting to be whipped.
