[Spoilers] Defining the phrase "€˜Hung Like a Horse"€™: Pb & the Kuriotates

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 68:

Vanilla Ice and the Savant moved as outlined previously.

Bobbin completed roading the river bend to increase GNP by 3 via trade routes.
He was able to do that thanks to the bear deciding to chase Beefy.




Demographics:

Iskender gained score inline with a pop increase, while his capital remained at size 5.
Suggests he settled a second city, but since I don’t have diplo contact yet, there’s the outside chance I’m wrong.
I should check that with Selrahc.

[pocketbeetle]

Ah, back to lurking...

Legends gives you 450 culture, enough to pop borders twice (effectively filling your proposed dotmaps).

So, initially at least, you will not steal a tile from the Illian capital's BFC (you won't any time soon, too much cultural production on the second ring already). The issue will mostly be the mana node, which is in Silent Night's third ring and is more vulnerable to cultural annexation.

It all depends on what is hidden in the fog of Cyan's western borders. If there is some nice land to be had, I'd say we have a winner. If it is more peaks, well, I'd start negotiating with Charles...

Welcome back Ilios
However clearly you've been spending too much time with the Hippies! ^^

It's quick speed, so Legends gives 300 culture to each city, which works out as 3 border pops (5, 50, 250) ie BFC+1.
I would estimate Selrahc has ~200 culture in Silent Night.

So casting Legends with purple dot in place would probably steal the mana node, and looking at it again, I think you're right - it won't steal any BFC tiles. But it would certainly put the tile W of the corn (E of the peak) under some pressure.
Agree that the fogged land West is important, I just won't be able to scout it anytime soon (check last bear movement).

I've also realised that switching from founding a megacity instead of a settlement with this third settler affects other plans also.
I was intending to research and found a religion in Caledor in around 18-20 turns.
With two cities and a settlement, that wouldn't have been a problem, the religion almost certainly would be founded in Caledor.
With three cities... it would probably be founded in the purple/cyan dot.

Is it worth delaying settling a third city by 18 turns, in order just to found a religion in a specific city?
Caledor will probably have +150% gold multiplier if all goes as planned, so that's a serious loss of shrine income...

Unfortunately I think the answer to that last question is obvious, I just don't like the answer.

.

[pocketbeetle]

Diplo:

Since I’ve had a few unresolved questions recently, I decided to resort to diplo digging.

Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:09:41 PM
Subject: Two quick questions

Greetings Winter King,

Quick note to ask two questions, one ingame, one out of game.

Kuriotates ratmen spies have reported a sudden increase in the Hippus Empire, unconfirmed reports of a second city are whispered in taverns.
Having contact with them, I was curious if the Illians could confirm or deny such rumours.

Second question is that I'm thinking about proposing a Blitz this weekend.
Given the proximity of the White Hand appearing (?), would that be okay with you, or would you prefer to procede at the usual 1 turn/day to allow for any possible diplo?
<snip>

Kind Regards,
Pb, Wedding Planner Boy-King.

Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 9:49:22 PM
Subject: RE: Two quick questions

The Hippus do indeed have a second city. Seems like that expansive bonus is coming into play, even with all the bad events. Hope that keeps the ratmen happy. Tell them to stop raiding my drinks cabinet.

White Hand is a turn from completion. There is little that Sareln could do to stay the priests diplomatically though, so I should be fine for a blitz session.

Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 10:05:45 PM
Subject: RE^2: Two quick questions

Thanks! *hic*

Confirmation that Iskender does have two cities, and that the Priests are one turn from completion.

Next up Cull:

Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 10:56:05 PM
Subject: Friendly Diplo message‏

Greetings Kandros Cull and his most capable Advisor Arthendain Flatfeet!

Our civs haven't communicated for a while, so I wanted to reach out and make sure we stay in touch.
I also made a promise in a previous message, that I would reveal the Kuriotates location once someone found us. The Illians, our nearest neighbour, have now done so.
Therefore I can tell you that the Kuriotates capital is 41 tiles West and 2 North of your own capital, almost on the opposite side of the continent.
Needless to say - we're a long way away, and there's absolutely no chance of border disputes anytime soon.

That doesn't mean we can't help each other out though!
I think your capital is on the coast (?) and we're quite close to the sea also.
Would you be interested in the possibility of coastal trading in the future?

If so, we'll need the Sailing tech and also a defogged coastal route (best done with a workboat sent around the North coast).
That will take a while, so don't worry about rushing to it, but it's something to consider for the future. =)

How goes the Barb situation since Vanilla Ice departed your land?

Kind Regards,
Pb, Exploratory Merchant Boy-King.

Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 11:05:40 PM
Subject: RE:Friendly Diplo message‏

Wonderful idea! We shall send a work boat out as soon as possible, so this route may be built, and trading can commerce.

There are barbs here, numerous ones, however, so far, no trouble.

How about you?

Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 11:26:04 PM
Subject: RE^2:Friendly Diplo message‏

Hey Cull,

Barbarian activity has been quite quiet over here.
The only problem (and it's a big one) at the moment is a Bear that ate one of my warriors (Guerilla promoted and fortified on a hill!).
That bear then promoted, is now Combat III (str 8 ) and has been wandering around my land for the last 20 turns or so.
If he could enter my cultural borders, I'd probably be dead.
But he can't.

And mentioning cultural borders, I'm intending to fire off my worldspell soon (Legends = culture in each city), which should help push the bear further away and let me work far off tiles without building a monument.
I'm mildly curious what you're intending to with your worldspell.
Fire it off soon, or keep it for endgame?

I just read up on it (I've never played the Khazad) and apparently it gives you free money, which helps with your unhappiness/dwarven vaults.
I'd guess what, you're sitting at +1 unhappy at the moment? Or have you had bad luck and having to suffer the horrible +2 unhappy penalty?

Kind Regards,
Pb, No honey left Boy-King

Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 1:19:12 AM
Subject: RE^2:Friendly Diplo message‏

Oh I'm doing fine with the happiness right now. I will fire it off when I need to/

Kind of hard to tell whether Cull is being deliberately reticent or just can’t be bothered. :rolleyes: He did respond quickly though.
Tentative +1 to my theory that he’s not at +2 unhappiness.

Anyway, idea of coastal trade route via future Sailing has been floated and approved. I just had to make sure he didn’t head straight for it, because ofc there’s still the Heron Throne up for grabs.
May have to cut down on the amount of info I offer freely in messages to him.


Note from Selrahc sent with the save today:

Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 12:41:33 PM
Subject: FFH PBEM

I'm pretty sure you'll see *that* on the demographics.

Umm yup!
(But does he not realise it shows up in the log also?)

[Ilios]

Is it worth delaying settling a third city by 18 turns, in order just to found a religion in a specific city?
Caledor will probably have +150% gold multiplier if all goes as planned, so that's a serious loss of shrine income...

You could just found the city as a settlement and upgrade to a megacity once OO is founded, right?

[pocketbeetle]

You could just found the city as a settlement and upgrade to a megacity once OO is founded, right?

Did I ever mention that you're a very clever person Ilios?
Because you are.
I didn't think of that.

Have a chocolate cookie:

Now, your suggestion doesn't get around the central issue: that I have to choose between founding a settlement or a megacity with the third city.

I still end up sacrificing 18ish turns of growth & production in purple/cyan dot if I decide I want to found some kind of religion (*cough* who said it was OO, stop giving away my secret plans ) in Caledor.
If I use Bob the worker, who is currently roading down, to farm the rice + gl tile (tile bleed) around the oasis, I can probably reach size 3-4 in that time.
Although admittedly, without AH or chain irrigation, purple/cyan is never going to sparkle.

But founding purple/cyan as a settlement first, then upgrading is definitely a better choice than founding a settlement around the sheep.
Saves me having to produce a fourth settler, gets the Legends culture in purple/cyan etc.

So thankyou.
Have a free turn update.

[pocketbeetle]

Turn 69:

Scene that greeted me on loading the save:



Moving the units gave this:



Decided not to road the forest SE of Caledor, simpler just to move South, plus it facilitates connecting the gl silks adjacent.
The road to Purple/Cyan dot will keep to the peaks, ie as far West as possible.
No reason for that. Absolutely none.

Bobbin started farming the gl tile W of Caledor, should finish 1t after Caledor grows to size 2.

Clicking end turn completed the settler in Kwythellar and the SC in Caledor.
More yummy GNP, and Mining completes next turn.

Sneaky espionage tip: Notice how Jingle Bells has a road leading NW, yet Silent Night does not?
Haven’t bothered to go back last turn and look for it there, but I think it’s safe to say Selrahc does have a worker running around roading.
No improved resource tiles though.


Demographics:

Well, after some boring turns, finally some stuff is happening.

• Soldier Count: Rival Best 58k
  Double the average and second best counts, no need to explain what this is.
  Despite criticisms of his workerless start, gotta say that T69 is quite impressive. Good job Selrahc
  Pretty much guarantees him a kill, let’s just hope it’s not me.
  
  
• Approval rate: Rival worst 52%
  Someone’s no longer unhappy. How interesting.
  Here’s why:
  
  
  So definitely was Bob, and note that means his capital is still unhappy, just that the free happy cap in Nubia is making his overall happiness +ve.
  
  
• Score:
  Bob gained 5 corresponding to a pop increase thanks to his new city.
  Sareln gained 5 points corresponding to a pop increase also, capital is still at size 5 so it must be in his second city. That’s city has grown multiple times now, must be at least size 4.
  

I also realised I still don’t know where Sareln placed this second city, “Gereth Minar”, so off I went to check the map. And what do we have here:

Looks like a plains hill plant 1W of the marble.
The pigs explains the rapid growth of the city – we know Sareln is (the only?) person to have AH.
Smart of him to plant on a hill also, unfortunately it’s just not going to help enough.
I’ve been impressed with Sareln’s builder play this game, was definitely wrong to rate him the lowest threat.

[Rowain]

You could just found the city as a settlement and upgrade to a megacity once OO is founded, right?

I didn't think of that.

Ilios

[Ilios]

Ilios

Game mechanics dude

[Rowain]

Game mechanics dude

Pssh. Telling Selrahc that Kuriotates can build 4 cities (on this map) would also be 'Gamer Mechanics' but I'm sure PB would be far less than pleased if someone gives a hint in that direction .

[pocketbeetle]

Pssh. Telling Selrahc that Kuriotates can build 4 cities (on this map) would also be 'Gamer Mechanics' but I'm sure PB would be far less than pleased if someone gives a hint in that direction .

Mmmm.

Obviously I wouldn't want anyone making blatant spoiler comments on other civs, in my thread or another's.
But I don't have a problem with any lurker who makes a suggestion within the framework of mechanics that I've previously outlined (especially mechanics that are exclusive to my civ).

So for example, if Selrahc were to make a table listing the number of cities the Kurios get for each map size, then on T50 started assuming that they only get 3 on a large map.
It wouldn't be a spoiler for a lurker to say, "but didn't you write that they could have 4 in 'this' post?"

Anyway, I'm never keen on these philosophical/rules-lawyering types of discussions (no Philo or CoL researched yet).
Take it to the lurker thread if you want to continue please! =)