RBP3 - [SPOILERS] - Team DIM (Mehmed of HRE)

[meatbalz]

some thoughts on foreign policy
1) 95% that egyptian warrior has permission, or india wouldn't be so cool about a summit
2) if that's the case india + egypt are in tight, we need to either join in or organise a coalition against them
3) we need to get directions to aztecs immediately + then find whoever's W of india
4) the ottomans know india has stonehenge right? i thought ruff was likeliest to build stonehenge for the CHA synergy. we need to meet aztec ASAP to see whether they're friendly with india or whether they have their eyes on stonehenge (i'm assuming it's obvious to everyone india has henge from the score increase?). if they're cool with india then A4 is right to fear a rush, aztec WILL use those jaguars on someone.
5) our scouting situation is 1000x better to the W than it is to the E. depending on how much they tell us i may give france a decent amount of info on what's happening to the W so we can get a clearer picture of our neighbours to the E.
6) if our current picture is correct, we have been fairly lucky with our neighbours, it certainly could have been worse

sorry, i'm just throwing everything down here

Ottomans: counter-offer for marble city = city 1 tile E of spices and free use of marble when we're not building a wonder. it does seem Korea was to their W. I'm going to use this as leverage in negotiations, there's only been 1 team eliminated and they happen to border them. Securing borders with us would allow them to expand aggressively where Korea was. we also need to arrange directions to carthage.

France: if they agree to short NAP. ask which direction they came from, and about surrounding civs. Tell them we've met civs to our west w/o naming names but saying we'd be happy to give directions if they agree to NAP. I'll try to get as much info as possible on the lie of the land. if they don't agree to NAP, redouble scouting efforts in their direction. do we know if they came from N, E, or S?

India/Egypt: we need to exclude that 5% probability they're fighting (would be dire if krill got his hands on stonehenge). given his comments on maintenance on top of india's casual attitude i think a war is highly unlikely. It's much more likely they're working closely together + if that's the case krill might be the one to supply monarchy in a trade, leaving us (HBR?). we need to get directions to aztec, meet them ASAP, and decide how close we think Egypt+India are and whether we throw our hat in the ring with them. once we've met aztec we ask india if they've met mystery civ to the W, if not we can go that way + repay india's favour by arranging a meeting.

Aztec: hopefully India gives us directions, I'll double-check they remember the rest of the summit. it's high priority as aztec is looking to rush 95% (other 5% is some variant), india would be ideal for CHA henge, but they may instead have their eyes set on ottomans (unlikely as they still haven't met, right?) or whoever's to their N and E.

lots to do... i will send our counter-offer to ottomans now, including ilios' better city placement

[Ilios]

Meat', I'm afraid your message to Morgan gave them the impression our capital is undefended. (they don't have sight on the actual city tile) If we don't get a reply soon, I suggest we move Cain SE to show them there's nothing to be gained if they declare war.

Edited to say we already know where Aztec is (12 tiles east from india)
I think non-aggressive jaguars are pretty unimpressive. Aztec still needs to research IW to make them (even though they don't need Iron).
I want to discuss the dotmaps before we send A4 our response.
If you do offer them the spice tile, it will put a lot of cultural pressure our other sites. I would prefer to convince them to use the information we gave them regarding Korea, and found their cities to the west first.

[meatbalz]

errr... too late

apologies. i've sent the response already as i'm keen to get things moving.

the spice city is pie-in-the sky for now, given what maintenance costs will be. i don't expect it to be founded any sooner than their 5th or 6th city, by which time our culture will be well establised as marble + sheep/wheat/horse cities are at worst cities 3 + 4 for us. there might be as many as 50 turns elapsed between the 4th and 5th cities given what maintenance costs will do to research.

[Ilios]

No problem dude. But I think we really need to get together for a chat so we can exchange ideas and align our goals.

[meatbalz]

i think a war declaration is coming from france. they have been somewhat unreasonable, it seems they're pretty intent on hostile action and my initial approach asking for a NAP probably only worsened things. you'd think liz of france would be playing the long-term game + people would be looking for friends but apparently not.

will know more soon. if we think they're coming in it's worth moving everything now, switching capital to warrior and ending turn so we get the first part of the split. thoughts ilios/dazed?

[meatbalz]

have them on chat, let's see where it goes...

me: you guys around
DMOC,Rash: hey chap,
is screeenshot trading banned till paper is known?
me: nope, it's allowed
DMOC,Rash: ok, give me a minute
Sent at 6:56 PM on Tuesday
DMOC,Rash: brb,
Sent at 7:03 PM on Tuesday
me: k
Sent at 7:05 PM on Tuesday
me: hi there
Ilios for DIM
Sent at 7:08 PM on Tuesday
DMOC,Rash: had to put the boy to bed. back now
me: no problem
Sent at 7:17 PM on Tuesday
DMOC,Rash: http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3426/settling.jpg
this is how we see the land
me: uh huh
and you're suggesting we don't settle beyond the yellow borders?
DMOC,Rash: yes, a tile either way could work, dpendant on what is decided
me: i'll need to check with the others. but again, we are unlikely to agree to settlement agreements before seeing the land.
we don't know how much land that leaves you in our direction
i can see it from your point of view
you think me asking for a NAP was a sign we have an empty capital
DMOC,Rash: it leaves enough so we do not have border pressure
Sent at 7:23 PM on Tuesday
DMOC,Rash: i'm not sure, you'll understand that we believe we are in postion of relative strenght and could cause you a headache, even if we don't make any huge gains
me: i understand that.
Sent at 7:24 PM on Tuesday
me: on the other hand, it could very well be we have a defended capital, perhaps even on a hill, can knock out a warrior in 2t and relieve a choke. and of course everyone else would see you declared on us while most of us, DIM included, are seeking friends.
so you'd gain nothing other than delaying us by 2t, lose a warrior, and take the rep hit.
Sent at 7:26 PM on Tuesday
DMOC,Rash: we are prepared to go 50-50 odds on killing your escourting warrior and taking your settler
me: haha that's a pretty aggressive stance for liz of france to take i like it
DMOC,Rash: i'm sure that most teams would understand
Sent at 7:29 PM on Tuesday
me: you're making some pretty big assumptions, 1) that you can even catch the settler, since it's not going in your direction, 2) that he'd be on flat land. and i'm not sure most teams would understand like you said. pretty aggressive move.

we'like i said, let me check with my team-mates, this isn't a decision i can make myself. just for info, would a screenie of our capital suffice to convince you we're not bluffing
Sent at 7:31 PM on Tuesday
DMOC,Rash: i'd prefer a screenie of the spot you want to settle.
Sent at 7:32 PM on Tuesday
me: i'll be back in a bit. but just to get this straight, you'd be willing to declare war on us just to slow our expansion?
DMOC,Rash: wouldn't you if the roles were reversed? What is so important about the spot your settling???
a stitch in time saves nine
me: that depends on whether i want to make friends or not. and there's nothing particular about the spot - we'd just like to keep up with expansion since i'm sure you've seen 2 civs are out to 2 cities & we're still at 1

[Ilios]

Ok, here's my email to Morgan:

Hello,


This is Ilios for DIM,


Well well, I've just checked the emails, and for team that prides itself in being polite, I've seen some pretty impolite demands.

If you think we'd have three warriors around, and not one of them defending our capital, you must be out of your minds. Granted, the message my teammate sent you must have given you the impression we're desperate for an NAP because we're defenseless. Believe me when I tell you we're not.

My teammate just wanted the freedom of moving our warrior to our planned new city site, without having to fear your warrior.
You ask what is so special about this site? Nothing at all, but I would think that you wouldn't send your settler unescorted either.

Now I would understand your reasoning on turn 10, with some poor sod going worker first being put out of his misery. But here, now, you would have absolutely nothing to gain, except for an enmity that will last the entire game. We have another warrior north, and a third 4 tiles south east from our capital. If you want to keep playing little games, fine, we'll just move those of those warriors to our planned site, and we'd happily have your warrior tag along.

But the real pity, is that all your "demands", we'd have probably gone along with them, if we just got to know each other.
So up to you guys. If you want a friendly trading partner, you'll get it. But if you want a blood enemy, well, I guess you'll get that as well...

If you still do not believe us, I'm willing to have your warrior take a peek into our capital. If you move your warrior N-N and NW on the plains hill, you'll see we're not bluffing.


Be well

9:29 PM me: hi
i've just sent you an email
DMOC,Rash: hello there
9:30 PM me: was waiting for you for chat
9:31 PM so i sent you an email in case you didn't show up
DMOC,Rash: i just read it.
9:32 PM me: good
9:33 PM DMOC,Rash: i'm guessing you didn't build a worker
me: when?
DMOC,Rash: at all, yet
9:34 PM me: buddy, it's turn 35
i'd have 10 warrior by now
DMOC,Rash: you want to escort every worker in your BFC?
me: you guys founded late right?
9:35 PM turn 2 i think
starting location that crappy?
9:40 PM DMOC,Rash: I'm glad your team has finally shown some balls. if your prepared to send a screenshot of your capital - as a sign of good will, then we'll sign a NAP and we'll also clear the slate, make a fresh start and build a lasting realationship that will benefit both of our empires.
me: done
give me a sec, i'll take the screenshot now
9:41 PM DMOC,Rash: no prbs, i'll send an email agreeing to the nap
9:45 PM me: ok if i just put the link here, or you want an email?
9:46 PM DMOC,Rash: link is good
me: http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5002/...ot0066.jpg
there you go glorious bastards
9:47 PM DMOC,Rash: thanks chap. we've not met anyone else yet, but then we've not really wandered about too much
9:48 PM can i ask what research goals you have? perhaps we can work together on diffrent paths of the tech tree?
have a team talk and ping us email with any thoughts you have.
9:49 PM me: ok we'll do that
DMOC,Rash: sweet, keep in touch
me: thanks, take care
i don't even know how long the nap lasts?
9:50 PM lol
DMOC,Rash: 25 turns
me: ok good, you sending a confirmation by email?
DMOC,Rash: yes, writing now
me: who am i speaking to now?
9:51 PM DMOC,Rash: Morgan
me: well met, Ilios here

So we're good, and we have an NAP for 25 turns. Here's there Email:

Team MODM agrees a NAP of 25 turns - to end on turn 61.

We suggest a renewal discussion on turn 55, (we'd appreciate a 6 turn warning if it was not be renewed - however this is not mandatory)

best of luck with the settling, hope the barbs are kind.

I did have to give them a screenshot of our capital, but I think it was the best solution in trying to resolve this.

[meatbalz]

ilios

lurkers everywhere must be p*ssing themselves laughing seeing how badly i handled things, but must be impressed with how you turned things around.

chalk up my major to being
a) new to MP
b) naive enough to think others want to be friendly too



edit: request from krill

new.mail.storage: fair enough.
Sent at 8:59 PM on Tuesday
new.mail.storage: Quick question.
Would you be willing to trade minimaps
or rather, the slightly larger mini maps from F5?
Sent at 9:06 PM on Tuesday
me: might be... let me check w/ the others and come back asap
new.mail.storage: np
no real rush on that

[Ilios]

Message from Krill:

Salutations to the DIM leaders!

I would like to invite you to an IM summit tomorrow evening at a time to suit yourself (starting no later than 2300GMT, please).

I feel that due to current circumstances in game, I have some information that you may find...useful to forward your current strategies.

He also told me he was discovering Polytheism next turn.

We'll see what he has to say tonight. Let's not trade Minimaps just yet.

Hernan will be facing a Lion attack, he's on flat land, but the attack is over a river.
I moved Cain SW out of the capital. Next turn, we'll wait until Morgan's warrior (who moved SW) has moved. Next turn we'll have to decide where to put our new city.

[dazedroyalty]

I'm back!!! Sorry for being pretty much out of touch for a while. The short version is that my brother graduated from Navy boot camp (I mentioned that I think) but then his flights got cancelled and I ended up driving him around (about 500 miles) and entertaining him. It was great to see him, but my weekend plans were toast...

It was bad timing because a lot of stuff happened over the weekend that I missed out on. Diplomacy is getting really exciting, especially with that message from Krill. My stance on our diplomatic situation is: kudos to Ilios for handling the situation with Morgan. To be honest, I don't have warm fuzzies towards Morgan and would be glad to take him out in the future if the opportunity arose. I have no inclination whatsoever to make any concessions to Morgan. If we have to wait two turns for our warrior, that's fine with me. I'd rather do that than let him feel like he has the upper hand in any way.

Negotiations with A4 are going to be of incredible importance and we need to put a lot of thought into that. I concur 100% with encouraging them to expand towards the empty space left by Korea.

I prefer city two to be with horses, wheat, sheep. Good points have already been made about it so I don't need to go through it all from scratch. Since we don't know where copper is yet, I think we need horses for the chariots as they will be our only serious offensive unit as the barbs pick up. Also, having two food resources now and another half food resource with calendar is just too good. We will be able to slave there consistently even at smaller sizes.

One situation that I would really like to continue to improve on is the lack of information to our east and south. I would rather not have to change Tricky's marching orders. As I mentioned, I'd prefer to build another warrior if necessary instead of limiting our recon. Once other civ's plant more cities, it'll be harder to explore, so I'd like to stay on top of that as much as possible.

Let's try to set up a chat with Krill. I'd like to wait till after that happens to say much more because he is atleast implying that it could seriously affect our strategy. I'm free for a GChat anytime after 1:00PM (GMT-6).