[SPOILERS] - Tredje and Mardoc are Sheelba of the Clan of Embers

[Mardoc]

RSo, here's the deal: Iskender gets Orthus' Axe, he gets to kill stragglers, he gets a loan of Body Mana and he gets half of the capture gold. We get an ally to a war we would be fighting anyway, we get to keep all of Bob's land (granted we capture it), we get a loan of Enchantment Mana and we get half of the capture gold. To me that is a very good deal. Iskender gets xp, gold and he gets help in taking down the current leader.

Yeah, overall it looks good to me. That gold might just boost us to CoL, too . Which will be good for income and for Organized courthouses slowing outflow.

A couple minor notes: If we're going to be able to count on Iskender for Tigers, I'm not sure I'd be training Warriors right now. We've probably got enough stack defenders, so do we really need disposable scouts and puppet killers and the like? At least, more than we need a couple extra turns on CoL before running out of treasury?

And, we should probably be considering what makes sense after CoL. Maybe KoTE, so we can eventually kill Iskender without using the Sons? Or maybe it makes more sense to go for Festivals so we can build markets and carnivals everywhere and further help recover our econ.

[Tredje]

A couple minor notes: If we're going to be able to count on Iskender for Tigers, I'm not sure I'd be training Warriors right now. We've probably got enough stack defenders, so do we really need disposable scouts and puppet killers and the like? At least, more than we need a couple extra turns on CoL before running out of treasury?

Hmm, you are probably right that I shouldn't go overboard with Warriors. My biggest concern is that Bob will be able to overwhelm our stack with a swarm of units, and therefore I decided to get some more Warriors. But you are probably right that with the units we have + Iskender's units + summons our stack should be safe.

And, we should probably be considering what makes sense after CoL. Maybe KoTE, so we can eventually kill Iskender without using the Sons? Or maybe it makes more sense to go for Festivals so we can build markets and carnivals everywhere and further help recover our econ.

My dream scenario would be to get a really long NAP with Iskender so that we can go after SL and maybe Serdoa before having to deal with the Sidar. If I can manage that we won't need KotE straight away, and can pursue economic techs like Festivals first. So I guess the tech path will be determined by how well I can arrange our diplomacy.

[Tredje]

Alright. There's been some days since I last posted, but I have been taking some screenshots as I played the turns.

On T115 we got this slightly annoying event:

Luckily our Son will be healthy in time for the attack. As you can see we got Copper hooked up that same turn. Our Warriors rejoice at seeing their new shiny weapons. Never again stone!

Another event on T117:

Not that this does us any good.

Cevedes comes out of revolt:

Yes, we do need Courthouses. With our current techrate CoL is only four turns away, and in addition to Courthouses it should give us 20+ commerce more right away.

[Tredje]

Diplomacy with Iskender:

Bob says that he'll be using Adepts summoning Puppets summoning Skeletons for defence while teching for Gibbon.

Here's my schedule:
T118: 6th Priest trained.
T119:Adept trained. On this turn I'd like to get Body Mana to instantly give him Haste.
T120:Priests appear in your borders in 2 groups, near Renegade Hill and Sorodh
T123:Priests enter Balseraph lands. T122 if there are no complications in my attempt to raze Ultigar

I considered sending some priests earlier, but decided against it since w/o Haste they would reach the Bals bordes only 1 turn ahead of the hasted stack.

The hawk uncovered Argenteria. Its garrison is a warrior and a puppet. If brute force won't do all three cities can be nicely forked by Elementals and hasted Tigers from a forested tile (see the attached picture extracted from a raven's retina)

Out of the blue Bob offered Iskender Open Borders. Iskender has been relocating Hawks in Bob's cities to give us better vision of his lands. Bob also told him that until he gets Gibbon he will be using Skeletons for defense. If he has them in enough numbers, me and Iskender plan to move to a location between his cities and threaten all of them.

You will also see that Iskender has been razing Ultigar (a favour for SL), and will be two turns late to join the party. I intend to start my campaign on T120 regardless. I will move onto the hill NW of Coombe View and start summoning Elementals.

[Mardoc]

Luckily our Son will be healthy in time for the attack. As you can see we got Copper hooked up that same turn. Our Warriors rejoice at seeing their new shiny weapons. Never again stone!

Yay! Str 4, soon to be Str 5 +10% city attack (are you still upgrading them to axes?)

Yes, we do need Courthouses. With our current techrate CoL is only four turns away, and in addition to Courthouses it should give us 20+ commerce more right away.

Double yay! This will finally put us at a point where we have something I can call an economy, instead of random bits and pieces.

Diplomacy with Iskender:

Bob says that he'll be using Adepts summoning Puppets summoning Skeletons for defence while teching for Gibbon.

I intend to start my campaign on T120 regardless. I will move onto the hill NW of Coombe View and start summoning Elementals.

Well - if Bob were just fighting us, this strategy might have worked. 2-3 adepts + puppets could outproduce the Sons in #summons/turn; the key question would have been how many warriors/axes we had to help. But with Tigers to kill skeletons, I don't anticipate much trouble all in all.

Still - you were considering keeping Sareln around for a couple more turns for XP farming? This, this is going to be XP gold!

Gibbon. What can Gibbon do that's scary? First and foremost, there's Impersonate Leader, if Bob has an ally he can trust to kill us and not him while he's got control. Nerve-wracking. Although if we're at war, it'll be tricky for Gibbon to get into a city of ours.

Well, Bob has Death, Air, Chaos, and Mind.
Death III - lichdom - not a huge worry. Specters could be annoying, but I think Fire Elementals trump them.
Air - Maelstrom is nasty, Air Elementals can be too - but 1 vs 4, we still come out ahead. And his is an Illusion, so it can't actually kill.
Chaos - Wonder. Totally unpredictable. Could be quite nasty, though.
Mind - um. Dominate. Normally hard to justify since it can be lost when the target resists, and it's rare for any single enemy unit to be worth claiming. Unless you're Balseraph, in which case you cast it with a disposable Puppet. And especially unless you're going up against a Clan military that's mainly 4, irreplaceable units. Targets strongest unit - which is almost certainly a Son. Has to get within 1 square to use it - and he has haste now since we didn't kill Sareln fast enough.

I think that's the worry. If you see Gibbon, kill him ASAP! If you don't see him, kill him ASAP! If you see a haste adept, put extra care into killing it! Be paranoid - he can steal our irreplaceable Sons! Probably the best thing to do, though, is just kill Bob ASAP - as of the last screenshot, he was still running AV, which probably means he isn't to Deception yet, let alone to having Gibbon built. If he does manage it, we might be able to survive, so long as we're attacking from long distance, have pillaged all his roads, and killed his Haste adept. Or have a screen of Tigers/axes that prevents him from getting within 1 tile of the Sons.

The only thing that might save us yet is that our Sons have Loyalty. Although - that didn't protect them from us taking them - if you get a chance, try a worldbuilder test on this, please. If Bob can't actually steal them, it would be very fun to watch him try. It's just - if he can, it would really really hurt.

Edit: Actually, on further thought, even if he doesn't dominate us, Gibbon could still put out 4 elementals/turn - if he gets a loan of enchantment mana from Square Leg, who ought to be paranoid about us and likely to give it, and casts elementals via puppets, that could be 2 Puppets, each with a Spellstaff, each able to cast twice/turn.

Edit2: Actually, it's even worse, since his Air Elementals can stick around an extra turn (Summoner trait), and create Lightning elementals when they die. Gibbon, alone, could probably produce enough summons to stall us, even if he can't Dominate. And Air/Lightning elementals are going to be a lot harder to kill with supplemental units than Skeletons.

Did I mention you should kill Bob quickly? I really believe it!

Edit3: And that ignores Twincast. Which at least requires Combat V before he can do it, but if he has Combat V, multiply all the summons by 2 again! He could have 4 Puppets alive at once, each with a Spellstaff and Twincast themselves, for maybe 16 Air Elementals? If he lives long enough to get the XP, Gibbon (or any Balseraph hero archmage) can be a really really scary force.

[Gaspar]

I think that it was tested and Impersonate Leader doesn't work in MP. Gibbon is a scary dude though. No question the overwhelming force of puppet summons is going to be the most challenging part of a Balseraph invasion. I'm still not sure if Iskender is in for a penny or a pound, but no doubt the tiger priests will be pretty necessary to carry off a proper assault.

[Ravus Sol]

Yep, I tested it in MP and Impersonate Leader just plain doesn't work. So that's one less worry for you! Be a productive paranoid worrier and focus on the other things!:neenernee

[Tredje]

Hi guys. Sorry for not updating for the last couple of days. After participating in this game and a PBEM before that I have realized that my interest in a game tends to decline after a while. Hopefully the action we are about to experience will refuel my fire.

In any case we are now at T120 and I have declared war on Bob. On loading the turn I was greeted by this diplomatic screen:

Haha! Yeah, not gonna agree to that... I move my stack onto the hill 3NW of Coombe View, then I summon a Fire Elemental to scout what units he has in the city:

Four Warriors, an Adept and a bunch of Puppets. For a second I consider moving my stack one tile closer so that I can attack the city next turn. However, would Bob be that careless? He has Haste and could have a big force waiting just outside of view. His power rating is much higher than ours. I decide to wait. This turn I will kill the four Warriors in Coombe View and stay in place. I will feel much safer once Iskender arrives with his six PoL and Tigers (on T123.) And it will be really beneficial for us to have his Hunter scouting the area behind Coombe View.

To be honest I am a bit uncertain how to conduct this war since I have never fought against a human-controlled Keelyn with tons of Puppets. If he decides to put only Puppets in Coombe View I could approach it under cover of Fire Elementals. He shouldn't be able to touch the stack if I do, but it is still risky since I don't know how many units he can bring to a fight outside the city. The most prudent thing to do is probably just to wait for Iskender so that we can move in together. Any thoughts on this?

You can also see that CoL will finish this turn, which is earlier than expected. I will revolt immediately of course, and probably spend a couple of turns hoarding gold for possible unit upgrades and such. After CoL I think I will get Festivals and then head for KotE. As always I value your input on this.

For those interested this is the message I wrote Bob:

Dear Keelyn,

As a young girl my deepest desire was to become the most beautiful girl in all of Erebus. Unfortunately the gods blessed me with abnormally high levels of testosterone instead of soft female curves and long eyelashes. Needless to say that left me at a disadvantage against the girls who displayed more feminine traits. I realized that if I were to become the prettiest girl in Erebus, I would have to go about it in a different manner. So I decided to root out all competition. Valledia with her dark complexity, full hair and elegant posture was the first to go. Now, dear girlfriend, your time has come. Your slender figure, your enchanting eyes and your adolescent demeanour may have the men of Erebus gawking at you, but when you are dead their attention will be all mine!

Signed,

The future Miss Erebus,

Sheelba of the Clan of Embers

[Selrahc]

Unfortunately the gods blessed me with abnormally high levels of testosterone instead of soft female curves and long eyelashes. Needless to say that left me at a disadvantage against the girls who displayed more feminine traits.

Aww. At least people can tell that Sheelba is a woman, which is streets ahead of Mahala.

And if you follow the Terry Pratchett or JRR Tolkien school of dwarfs there is a good chance that Arturus, Beeri, Garrim or Kandros are female under those bushy beards.

[Tredje]

Aww. At least people can tell that Sheelba is a woman, which is streets ahead of Mahala.

Mahala is a woman? I always thought it was a dude. If Mahala is in fact a she then you are correct, Sheelba has no reason to complain.