[SPOILERS] Ceiliazul's First Dance: Louis of the Ottomen

[Ceiliazul]

Shelf Life

What do lurkers think??

Wyachi has completed the Heroic Epic, and will build one unit per turn, every turn, for forever. I want to mix unites with an eye for being useful on t120. 30 spears, for example, is probably not the best value on t120. Hhammer cost is almost irrelevant, even Janissaries (53h) are easily 1t builds in this fantastic city.

Options:

• chariots - I want a few for sentries and fast scouts
  
• spears - a few for garrison duty... and spot upgrades to pikes
  
• swords - 3-5 swords to put Sumeria out for good
  
• catapults - seem to hold value very well
  
• maces - plan on lots of these (can build t89)
  
• Janissaries - certain to be useful beyond t120

The path to Jans would be thru education, bulbing Gunpowder with an engineer (after learning Machinery, Construction, Engineering) I'd have to postpone Music, Liberalism and other good things in the meantime. Is the difference between maces and janissaries big enough to justify a beeline?

Are catapults likely to be worth spit on t120?

[SevenSpirits]

Shelf Life

What do lurkers think??

Wyachi has completed the Heroic Epic, and will build one unit per turn, every turn, for forever. I want to mix unites with an eye for being useful on t120. 30 spears, for example, is probably not the best value on t120. Hhammer cost is almost irrelevant, even Janissaries (53h) are easily 1t builds in this fantastic city.

Options:[/list]
[*]chariots - I want a few for sentries and fast scouts
[*]spears - a few for garrison duty... and spot upgrades to pikes
[*]swords - 3-5 swords to put Sumeria out for good
[*]catapults - seem to hold value very well
[*]maces - plan on lots of these (can build t89)
[*]Janissaries - certain to be useful beyond t120

The path to Jans would be thru education, bulbing Gunpowder with an engineer (after learning Machinery, Construction, Engineering) I'd have to postpone Music, Liberalism and other good things in the meantime. Is the difference between maces and janissaries big enough to justify a beeline?

Are catapults likely to be worth spit on t120?

Obsolete siege units are by far the most useful obsolete units to have, so I do recommend catapults. Unless you're going to have Steel t120 they are invaluable for defense. (But not so good on offense since mounted units will just kill them.)

The main difference between Musketmen and Macemen is that the latter get crushed by shock knights if you can't catapult the knights first. Janissaries don't just do better than maces; they actually have an advantage vs knights!

But I don't know what you'll be facing t120 in this game - maybe knights will be a distant memory. I don't really have a feel for how fast tech is here.

[Ceiliazul]

Anticlimactic!

So much excitement on t81, how to follow it up? I'm back to needed infrastructure, building courthouses and workers. I'm losing gold at 0%, but I'll survive by building wealth until the golden age.

But I don't know what you'll be facing t120 in this game - maybe knights will be a distant memory. I don't really have a feel for how fast tech is here.

By t120, I'm hoping to have either Curs or Cannon, depending on the Liberalism race. AdHoc is back in GNP hell, and will likely be getting his Camel Archers (knights) going full speed about that time.

[COLOR="PaleGreen"]Ad Hoc's GNP = 135
Culture = 49
Maintenance = 49
Civic Upkeep = ~20
Espionage = 4

[SIZE="4"]Slider commerce = 10[/SIZE][/COLOR]

AdHoc is really not managing the GNP game very well. His research is less than 10% of his gnp. Meanwhile, I'm making 135 beakers, over 50% of my total gnp. Why is AdHoc so beleaguered??

The answer in a single picture:



Also, objectively, starting the game with a clear naming scheme and then letting the default names take over is a sure sign of reduced interest. AdHoc tends to play his turns very quickly, I wonder if he's just mailing it in. There's really no other explanation for that disaster called Mecca... no trade routes after 16 turns?? Even knights might be a stretch with cities like that!

Now the bad news:

At the start of the turn, I had 5 garrison units to spread around 12 cities. (Holy Cow, I'm even insaner than I already knew I was!) Wyachi will build chariots and spears for garrison duty and likely go straight to maces after that. Chariots first to get to my farflung cities fast!



Also, a wonder race may be brewing. Catwalk bent his whole empire toward the Calendar research, building wealth in many cities to speed the process. We met on chat, and talked about my recent wonder success (he's pretty despondent), but he hasn't mentioned a single word about the Mausolleum, which is itself suspicious. Catnip Factory is the ONLY Roman city I haven't scouted, which the chariot in that picture will rectify shortly. With visibility on the city, I'll know exactly how worried I should be!

[Ceiliazul]

Mausolleum Race... Won!

I finally scouted Catnip Factory and discovered 104 hammers in the box. Confirmed he's building the Mausolleum. Confirmed he has no chance. Even with 3 chops in the area and 24h production, he won't be able to whip before I finish the build.



In other news, Pegasus has temporarily claimed the diamonds on our border. I'll be in Caste System shortly, and will ensure myself of that resource by hiring artists. Losing 2 science per artist in one city to get 2 happy in every city seems like a good deal!



The scouting of Catnip Factory, I've seen all of Catwalk's cities. A global overview of the toroid, spoilered for bigness:

Action on the Sumerian front

Oh yeah, we're still fighting a war! Sumer built another city, directly at Pegasus. It's on flatland, and with only 20% culture, axes can take the city! I have 2 axes in range, but it does me no good to capture the city. It also does me no good to have Pegasus capture it, having it fall into Catty influence. So I dialed up Ad Hoc:

[COLOR="YellowGreen"]AdHoc, there's a second Sumerian city on your border with Pegasus. It won't fall right now, but Pegasus has an axe incoming. I can't take the city for maintenance reasons. Because you've been involved in the war all this time, I feel like you deserve the city spoils. Any chance you can get a couple c1 axes down there?

I've attached a screenie of the region. The archer defends at 5.7, you'll get odds with a c1 axe.



[COLOR="PaleGreen"]thanks for the heads up, i'll try and get couple of axes down there and my exploring chariots as well

hopefully i'll get a missionary to you soon

Ad Hoc[/COLOR]

[/COLOR]

[Ceiliazul]

I realized my world pics suck. Where's the thread about modding the config files for higher clouds?

[pindicator]

I use flying camera for my overview shots; no more clouds!

[Commodore]

So, if you are completely confident you can win the MoM race, how are you going to handle the diplo? Catwalk is about to see a ton of very expensive hammers turn to gold. Innocence? "Why didn't you tell me you were trying for it?"

I was going to suggest talking to him before he sinks more hammers into the thing but that kind gesture would only lead to heartache, I guess, as he tries desperately to negotiate something.

[Ceiliazul]

Economic Progress

(Catwalk MoM progress: 169/301)
(Ceiliazul MoM progress: 263/301)

With MoM victory assured, final preparatons are made for the Glorious Golden Age that awaits. We finished 3 courthouses and a market, bringing soothing relief to our economic diarrhea:
T84: losing 39gpt at full tax
T85: losing 9gpt at full tax ...a 30gpt swing!!

Correspondingly, our GNP has jumped again, now above 300 with no wealth builds. Machinery is going to be a 2t tech

So, if you are completely confident you can win the MoM race, how are you going to handle the diplo? Catwalk is about to see a ton of very expensive hammers turn to gold. Innocence? "Why didn't you tell me you were trying for it?"

Man, I've wrestled with this. I don't really want Catwalk to know just how much I know about his empire. Even though he lost the MoM, he's teching plenty well enough to make plays for other wonders, and my passive espionage advantage could be big there.

I will plead innocence if he asks. Not that I didn't know, but that he didn't bring it up as a discussion topic. He had to know he was the underdog in the Mausolleum race (I've got calendar resources hooked up already) so why not ask? If the tables were turned, I would have at least tried to get something in return for not forcing a huge whip... nothing to lose, and maybe save some forests for another day.

The diplo hit? Man, I don't know what he could really do. Catwalk has initiated these complex deals which don't leave him much room to react to changing game conditions. I suppose I agreed to the same deals, but status quo is totally working for me so far.

[Ceiliazul]

No updates for 3 days

I'll be on the road... able to play the turns, but no way I'll have time for updates. Just means the t90 update should be superfun!

I did break down and send a message to catwalk about my getting the MoM on t86... hope that good deed doesn't get punished!

[Ceiliazul]

So while I'm away Catwalk gets a wild hair. What do you think Commodore? Is this something with precedent, or completely new? What if I agred to changing the game to Always War starting t100? I could have Jans and Nationalism by then... I think.

Hey Ceil

I've given it some thought, and I think you're in a winning position here. With NAPs all across the board and no possibility of anyone ganging up on you, you'd have to mess up pretty bad from this point on. I only have myself to blame for that, as I initiated the alliance negotiations and then failed to keep up with you. My main mistakes were wasting time on Pegasus and failing to grab the Mausoleum in time. Iron Working turned out to be a dud, and getting Code of Laws before Calendar was a major mistake. You may be right in saying that I could have gone after Pegasus succesfully. I don't think it would have helped my position any, but there's no way to tell for sure. Regardless, I commend you for your fine play and acknowledge that I was bested fair and square. With better play, maybe I could have come out on top as a result of our alliance instead. You would still be ahead if I landed the Mausoleum, but I would have grabbed a crucial advantage that I could have leveraged. I was about 5t out on it when you called it, and I could easily have completed it 5t ago. Still kicking myself for that I didn't make any long-term plans for it, just realized at one point that it'd be a pretty nifty thing to have and started beelining it. Another lesson learned there.

Would you consider accepting victory for this game and continue it as a shadow game with NAPs dissolved? Provided that Ad Hoc and Pegasus were to agree, of course. I have not mentioned anything to them. Right now it's starting to feel a lot like PBEM24, with you in mackoti's role and me in Gaspar's. I can see where I've made mistakes leading up to this, but unless you make some major mistakes of your own from here on out I don't see any factors that would let me catch up. It would still take a long time for the game to be concluded, and spending that much time on a game with a pre-determined outcome would be rather a killjoy. I don't mean to be a wimp or a quitter, I just see the game as mostly over once the outcome is decided. That said, if you wish to play it out I'll respect that.

If we were to continue it as a shadow game, we could either resume to FFA with NAPs dissolved or possibly turn it into a team game (you and Pegasus vs me and Ad Hoc looks most fair). I think that could be rather an exciting ending to a great game that I've enjoyed tremendously. Let me know what you think, and thanks again for being a pleasure to play with.

Best regards, Catwalk

Catwalk, I'm honored, and I'll take this seriously. although I think you're underestimating your chances, I see how it looks from your side. I'm out of town for 3 days, I'll give you a serious reply on Thursday-ish. Please hold off talking to Peg and Ad until then. -ceil

I'd say my chances mainly consist of you messing up a war badly against Ad Hoc. Even so, you may well simply refrain from declaring on him. We all have a lot of land, and I'm unable to declare on you as long as Ad Hoc lives. So I'd either have to take out Pegasus and space race you (maybe I'm selling myself short here, but I don't see any way for that to work out in the given time frame) or try to take out Ad Hoc as well and then declare on you. That's a huge time buffer for you, you'll be halfway across the galaxy by then

Don't get me wrong, I'm still having fun in the game. It's my first one, and I'm trying a bunch of stuff out. So I'm not in a hurry to settle this. I just don't think my enthusiasm would last to see the game to a finish, as we still have a long way to go (guessing 2-3 months). It goes without saying that I won't talk to Pegasus and Ad Hoc about this without your consent, I'm still committed to honouring our agreement. I wonder if I should pull a mackoti on you and see if you've broken any terms of our agreement in the past 20t, then use that as an excuse to declare blitzkrieg on you :D

With that said, PB7 has me all kinds of excited and PBEM29 is also looking good. So my Civ motivation is alive and well, and let me emphasize again that PBEM25 has been a blast.