RBPB4 [SPOILERS] - De Gaulle of the Egyptians

[Lord Parkin]

Message from SleepingMoogle:

The Warrior may be slightly problematic at this point. There is a narrow strip of land leading to the north, but it's a dead end and you would find yourself at another border within a few turns. The connection to Rego and Sunrise is roughly to the southwest of where you are, so perhaps we can arrange for him to pass through once one of us researches Writing?

Pleasant dreams,
-SleepingMoogle
Patriarch of the first tribe of Somnus

[Lord Parkin]

Hinduism went last turn, in case I didn't mention that before... presumably to Luddite. I'll check with him next time I get the chance.

Pottery finished; Writing's next in the queue. Any objections? I figure we need those Libraries ASAP to start working on a Great Scientist, not to mention to improve our research rate. Plus, the ability to sign Open Borders will be quite useful in the near future, for reasons I'll mention in a minute. Switched to 0% research to gather gold before beginning on our next research project (probably Writing, unless anyone suggests otherwise).

Our Work Boat will be done at Magadan next turn; another Settler will be done in the capital next turn as well, which will head for the Copper spot. Of the two Workers at the capital, one has started roading towards the Copper spot this turn, and the other has moved to start chopping the final forest within the city's immediate radius (the last +20 hammer forest for now).



Our fourth city, Felidae, was founded. (I guess Krill will be happy to know that I've finally settled on a "proper" naming theme. )

Two Workers are now on top of the Gold at Evermore, and the road has been completed. When the borders expand next turn, they'll start on the Gold mine, finishing it a turn later. After that they'll spend 2 turns building roads to connect the new city up to the empire, then will hook up the Deer and finally head to hook up the Gems right on schedule as the borders of Felidae expand. Looking good so far for our early research; while we'll still want cottages soon, all that free commerce from those three resources will really be a nice bonus early on and throughout the rest of the game.



Encountered Nakor's borders, and as he happened to be logged into the game at the same time, had a brief chat with him as well. Turns out that's his capital's borders (!)... that means his capital's only 14 tiles from Plako's. Compare that with the 17 tiles between Luddite and Mackoti, and the 23 tiles between Luddite and myself... seems that civs are a bit more cramped in the south, at least in this particular area. Could explain part of why Plako and WarlordDR had "border tensions" so early.

Anyway, Nakor mentioned that he hadn't encountered Luddite yet, so I offered him directions. In turn, he gave me information about how to get to Locke - directly west through his territory (as I'd expect), but apparently his culture is blocking it off right now. He offered the option of a "phoney war" so we could get through, but we decided against it based on the slight trade route penalty. There's also the fact that we'll have Writing for Open Borders fairly soon anyway (<10 turns, I think), so there's not much to be lost by waiting around for a couple of turns. It allows us to explore more land near Nakor in the meantime, which is useful considering he's basically a second southern neighbour of ours (not exactly, but close due to the lay of the land).

Oh, also had a chat to Nakor about espionage points, and apparently he's happy to stop spending on us once he's got demographics on us, which should be next turn or the turn after. Also discussed the threats of Plako and Luddite in this game... seems he's particularly concerned about Plako (as I'd expect), which is good to know.



Since SleepingMoogle mentioned that the land to the north of Bob is a dead end, I figured I'd try heading south for a few turns and seeing if there's a way through down there. If not, once again we'll be able to fall back on Open Borders once we get Writing. Seems that'll be quite a handy tech for us to get ASAP, now that our exploring units are starting to get blocked off by culture. All the more reason to research it next, I think.

[Lord Parkin]

We're up to second place again, at least for this turn. Woot!

City counts on turn 58 from the civs we've met:

Luddite - 3
SleepingMoogle - 3
Nakor - 4
Mackoti - 4
Plako - 5

Plako's ahead, as one would expect right now, but otherwise we seem to doing pretty well. We're certainly managing to hold our own with the pack despite rush-building Stonehenge early on, which is good to see.

[Lord Parkin]

Just been thinking about possible alternate strategies for getting a quick Great Scientist. (Beyond the obvious and routine "hire 2 Scientists and wait" option.)

One option I've come up with is basically "high risk, high reward" - i.e. working 2 Scientists and 2 Priests after a Library for maximum early GPP. Of course, this only gives a maximum 50% chance of a Scientist, but gives us a great person much quicker... and a Great Prophet isn't that bad even if we get one.

If we get unlucky and fail such a "high risk" attempt once or twice, we could always go with the "sure thing" approach. Basically, we tech to Code of Laws early, then switch to Caste System, and hire max scientists in a city. For instance, we could manage 5 Scientists in Evermore without even building any farms (possibly more in that city or another with farms). Anyway, as an example, 5 Scientists would give us a 300 GPP Great Scientist in 20 turns, or a 400 GPP Great Scientist in 27 turns. It has great synergy with an attempt to grab Confucianism as well.

The downside is we won't be able to use Slavery for the period that we're in Caste System, which is a slight bummer but shouldn't be too bad. This'll be during the part of the game that we'll be wanting to grow most of our cities and work more cottages anyway, so we can always factor that in and plan ahead for it if need be.

Anyway, all going well, we may not even need to do this; the "high risk" option could well net us a Great Scientist on the first or second try, and then we don't need to bother with the Caste System approach (although it could be interesting anyway).

What do the lurkers think?

[Lord Parkin]

Actually, a city like Felidae seems to make more sense for a mass Caste System Scientist spam, since it has more food available. Evermore seems to makes more sense for a Library + 2 Scientists strategy, since we can switch to working Magadan's Gold as well as Evermore's one to maximise the 25% research bonus while working the scientists. Only issue then if we go that route... do we build the Granary or Library first in Evermore? Probably the Granary, I guess. We'll need the whip to get it done as early as possible. Actually, we'll probably need that soon in many of our cities anyway... most of them except the capital, anyway. We want to grow the capital before too long and start it working some cottages... want to have a nice bonus lined up by the time we arrive at Bureaucracy.

[Lord Parkin]

From my sim, it seems Writing will be finished on turn 66. Masonry could then be finished on turn 72 in time for starting the Pyramids in the capital (after it builds a Granary), if we end up wanting to go with that strategy. Note that we'll need Masonry if we want to go for the Hanging Gardens too, so slotting that in before going for the more expensive Maths tech doesn't seem like a bad idea.

Thing is, where does Sailing fit into all of this... because we need that soon too, for trade routes. Hmm. Maybe Writing -> Masonry -> Sailing -> Mathematics would be a decent route to take? If we have coastal trade routes open by that point, then the extra income would increase our speed on the Maths tech a bit. Of course, if we're dead set on the Hanging Gardens, it might be best to delay Sailing until after Maths. Hmm. We'll have to see closer to the time, I guess.

[Irgy]

If you only need masonry for the gardens, why not get sailing before masonry?

I'm all for the mixed gpp-pool strategy myself. It's a gamble, but it's a fun gamble. All the best outcomes lie down that path, and the worst case isn't that bad.

[Lord Parkin]

I also figured out we can get the Copper hooked up on turn 70 with a few tweaks. As a result, we may want to change Magadan's build queue to shift up the Barracks a few places. I think Work Boat -> Warrior -> Warrior -> Barracks (t70) -> Axeman (t76) seems to be the optimal route right now.

As for a potential Pyramids build, here are the some of the rough numbers.

- Number of Workers potentially available from start: 3-4
- Number of 16-hammer forests available: 4 (converts to 96 hammers)
- Number of 13-hammer forests available: 4 (converts to 76-80 hammers)

So, all this along with working max hammer tiles through sizes 6 and 7 as the capital builds the Pyramids, we can potentially build the wonder in as little as 12 turns from start to finish. However, this would involve chopping almost all of the forests within the capital's current borders prior to Mathematics. Perhaps we could get in some chops post-Maths, but it might be a push to get the tech in time. Even if we did, it'd only alter the build time by a turn or two.

So, we're looking at an earliest possible build time of 82 if we go for them, with the realistic time probably being a few turns after that. We could quite comfortably get them before turn 90, though. Hmm, how much do we really want them? They'd certainly help with our hired Scientists and Priests we'll be running, as well as the settled Great Prophet(s). It would slow down our cities beyond #6 though. It would also reduce our chances at the Hanging Gardens, at least in the capital... we could potentially chop out that wonder in a different city though, perhaps Felidae.

Anyway, lots to think about.

[Lord Parkin]

Thanks for the input! Very valid questions.

If you only need masonry for the gardens, why not get sailing before masonry?

Well, if we want to try for the Pyramids as well as the Hanging Gardens, we'd need to get Masonry first. Even if we don't decide to try for the Pyramids though, Sailing still delays Mathematics and consequently the Hanging Gardens. I'm not sure we can afford that delay, especially since SleepingMoogle (Cre/Ind Louis) has already explicitly expressed an interest in the Hanging Gardens to us. That rather suggests if we don't beeline it, we'll lose it. Again, it comes down to how much we really want it, and whether we're willing to slightly slow down our rate of founding new cities to get the wonder.

I'm all for the mixed gpp-pool strategy myself. It's a gamble, but it's a fun gamble. All the best outcomes lie down that path, and the worst case isn't that bad.

I think I'm quite keen on it too, actually. At worst we get a Great Prophet sooner than we otherwise would have. At best we get a nice early Academy. Either way, I think we win. The only downside is temporarily stunted growth in the city we run 4 specialists in, but that's not too bad. Assuming we get the 200 GPP great person via this method, it'd only take 17 turns with 4 specialists. Plus we get the benefit of the extra science during that time (many times more so if we manage to get the Pyramids).

[Lord Parkin]

Sent to SleepingMoogle:

Thanks for the information about the dead end. I've decided to turn the Warrior around for now and see if there's maybe another way around to the south. Failing that, one of us should get Writing at some point, so if you're happy to sign Open Borders and allow passage for my Warrior, then he could pass through your borders at that time to head west. I'd certainly be most grateful if you'd grant him passage in this way.

Regards,
Lord Parkin