Arise, Riders of Rohanna! Ride for Molach! [SPOILERS!]

[Ichabod]

Serdoa can win by Tower before turn 150. I don't want to be a killjoy, but my honest thoughts is that there's no way to stop the orcs now. 2 settlers for the price on less than 1 is impossible to compete against on a only economic run. Besides, FfH is way more forgiving regarding gold generation than BTS, so he can always have the science slider pretty high, even if he's expanding in double speed.

I think military action is the only chance we have. Annoyingly enough, the orcs are good at this too. But at least you can force his hand a bit more if you are not tied to a NAP. The clowns seem to not have realized this and that really lowers ours chances (because I think we'd need a dogpile). Of course, it's not easy to plan a dogpile with someone you haven't met yet in a 3 players game.

[Molach]

Turn 78 & 79.

Little to report.
Except, ehm, I forgot to turn Tech on. So now we have a Secret fund to both Upgrade an axeman to full Health, pay for any event. And Research for 20 turns or so.

EOT 78 (Yeah confusing with turn 79 in the pics.)


Demos:

Turn 79:
Axeman attacked, as you see, now up to 6 exp. Also the Orcs are greedy for gold, we knew that already.


Demos:

I need to contact the Clowns. I surely do not hope Serdoa was telling the truth about the NAP, I Guess so. I'll send out my first chariot when it's ready. Will take a bit too long to contact him by my expanding borders.....

[Molach]

Crosspost with Ichabod!

I agree that Serdoa will win by then. Plenty of mana around.

My power rating is close to Orcs', at least for now because he is building up/expanding instead of building armies. This is because I've been prioritizing military techs recently, and because I've built up, perhaps a bit excessively, to be safe from barbs. A bit useless. But this power can and needs be used to keep Serdoa on his toes. I can't know if he is going for ToM (again??) or just massive military, but I can at least force him to maintain an army and garrison cities.

His offer to pass on any message to Clowns is funny - "Yeah, tell the clowns that I propose A) NAP from now and untill 5 turns after Serdoa is last in power and B) Mutual defense pact versus the Orcs".

I might get a little sneaky, and say "No thanks, the Sidar passed on a message during your war".

And of course, signing a long NAP now will completely ruin any lurker interest in the game.

No, I'll tech HBR and CoL, bulb/tech currency, turn off tech while building GotN, all the while building chariots. Then buy my army and go hunt for blood. Ehm.
* Find clowns, and ask details of the NAP. I think Serdoa was right about there being a NAP, clowns would know they could be crushed easily, especially if I were to sign a NAP for any period of time.
* Find Serdoa. Yup. No good building a horde and not knowing where to send it. However, with a torroidal map I suspect I will find Orcs in just about any direction, so no worries there.

I'll likely lose, but better to go out with a bang, than having Serdoa show some screenshots turn 135 about how he will win in 8 turns and was there anything else?

[Molach]

Serdoa, as you will win the game by turn 150 (or so close thereafter as to not matter) I must respectfully decline.

As a learning experience, I need to develop multiplayer fighting skills. Either how to lose my army on futile offense, or how to survive the longest in face of overwhelming invasion. Better than just conceding because nothing can be done.

(Obviously I did not tell the Hippus populace this)

Not that I'm about to attack, but for the sake of having any excitement in the game (?) we must keep our hands untied.

I thank you for your offer to talk to Balseraphs, but gtAngel was also willing to do this. And I'm close to meeting him for real anyhow.

Peace and Love, Molach of the Hippus.

Well, I forgot to actually ask gtAngel, but I'm pretty sure he would have been willing. I mean, why not spite the guy that wrecked your empire and enslaved your people? Right?

[Ranamar]

Regarding the Tower, I've noticed something interesting about this map. There are no raw mana nodes and nobody starts with metamagic mana. That means that, to win by tower, you need to go out and conquer either a metamagic node or a bunch of other nodes.

There's a metamagic node north of you, though. If you can secure that one and do tactical strikes against anyone else with a metamagic node, (I have no idea how many are on this map...) you might be able to prevent anyone else from building the tower. They'll need 13 very particular nodes, or else convince people to trade their mana for the duration of the build, otherwise. I thought the usual tower rush was done with around four plus a metamagic mage. Admittedly, shrines provide mana, too, but they're not necessarily efficient, and you can probably find out where the shrines are anyway... and they'll only substitute for one each of the 13 that need to be acquired or traded for.

Preventing a tower rush is manageable, if you manage to explore enough territory to secure things that are usable to blow away the current mana settings of the nodes.

Diplomatically, I think you could ask for a rendezvous with the clowns pretty without too many worries. They might even be amenable to helping you secure metamagic nodes away from the Orcs.

... What about the Altar? What would it take for the Orcs to do the Altar? It looks like they're already Neutral, but the final stage of the Altar requires being even farther up the tree than the Tower, last I checked.

[spellman]

And of course, signing a long NAP now will completely ruin any lurker interest in the game.

Good to know we're a factor in your strategic planning.

[Molach]

Good to know we're a factor in your strategic planning.

First and foremost.

Besides if the lurker fly off, who would then advise me?

Hey Molach,

that's fine, I actually did not really expect the offer to be taken, after my performance in FFH12, even though I think this game is different in that regard, as back then I worked onto the goal of getting the ToM from pretty early on, earlier than we are actually at.

Anyhow, I look forward facing your hordes. What of course I only tell now as long as they are not entering my land. When they do, I will certainly curse you in my thread

Kind regards,
Serdoa

Nice of him to say he will fear my hordes. We shall see.

-----

Re: Tower of mastery, I had a look in-game, and there are some plain mana nodes mixed in. 3 are almost within reach.
Also 2 metamagic are within range. With him taking out the Sidar, I should think he has one pretty handily set up in his core.


Showing my empire borders, and then resources.

Demos:

I've already started to prepare for switch in civics, by farming a bit here and there. Tentative plan now: Finish HBR (5 turns) Finish CoL (5 turns max). Bulb currency with Gmerc (10 turns, so justin time). Build the GotN in capital. Gonna have some extra mined hills ready by then, with max hammer I'll build it in 8-9 turns (depends if I manage to overflow enough). At this point, I can revolt. Aristocracy + consumption. Then I think it will pay (regardless of which route I take) to get fishing and sanitation. But anyway, 18 turns and I'd have mounted mercs, bronzed.

About ToM victory....I understand about mana and the need to build 4 towers then the big one. And that tower of divination is used to grab the strength of will tech. But....

a. Do I need to spread the 4 towers out, because of the national wonder max 2 thing? Tower of mastery does not count here?
b. To stop a ToM victory, is it enough to raze a city with an already build tower? Say, I've started building the ToM in my capital. Then Orcs raze my city which holds tower of elementals. What happens? Building put on hold, hammers retained? Nothing, build on? Or the build gets deleted and hammers lost?
c. The tower is a project, not a building, so I cannot hurry it by any means? No slaves, soldiers of kill-morph, Great Engineers?
d. I'll have, within my sphere and palace, two of every kind of mana needed for each tower. Except chaos, only got the death there. And elementals, have access to every type there. This probably means that the real crutch will be teching - getting sorcery and arcane lore?

Still on the fence about best route to take...gold + buy or build units + tech ToM. If I go with the full military option, it might pay to get iron working. 2700 beakers, hm. 22,5 mercs. Increases strength from 6->7 on chariots/mercs. 17 % increase. So I'd need 135 units to get an increase in total strength. Not good. While having higher strength units will mean more wins, I'll never get close to that number of troops. In 20 turns, with new civics and all, and aristo farms up, I would still earn less than 240 gold. So say absolute max is 3 units per turn, 1-2 built and 1-2 bought. I won't have 40 turns to build up (plus 20 to get started).

[HidingKneel]

a. Do I need to spread the 4 towers out, because of the national wonder max 2 thing? Tower of mastery does not count here?

There's no actual limit to wonders per city.

d. I'll have, within my sphere and palace, two of every kind of mana needed for each tower. Except chaos, only got the death there. And elementals, have access to every type there. This probably means that the real crutch will be teching - getting sorcery and arcane lore?

And Strength of Will. Or are you planning to grab that with one of your towers?

Still on the fence about best route to take...gold + buy or build units + tech ToM.

Obviously the military route will be most entertaining for the lurkers!
(By the way, I haven't commented much because I'm globally spoiled, but I've been greatly enjoying this thread ).

[Molach]

Thanks HidingKneel, appreciate that.
And yes, I'd guess strength of will is the logical tech for divination? Sorcery will be needed for metamagic anyway, Arcane lore- tech while building the lesser towers.

Turn 81

Harvesting.

Rookie warrior killed a barbarian to the NE. Scout and archer has teamed up, looking for city sites.
I think I'll found the Ultimate BFG city on the hill as noted, but not because I'd fill the BFG....I'd also have a city NW-NW-W of it. Gotta think about safety, can't found a city in desert in these troubling times. This city commands the immediate area, and will be my next city up here. Sent a worker, he's gonna road towards the site. Will be a bit isolated, but .

Settler built settler last turn, he's rushing towards Sian lands and will found in 2 turns.

North, defensive post holding up - getting ready to attack next turn.

Axeman will heal up a bit for better odds. Not gonna take shock, saving myself up for mobility...due in 2.

South - also ready for attack next turn

Annoying warrior. Demon warrior don't have stellar odds, but I'm confident he will manage just fine. Might be enough to get him a promotion too. Building a garrison warrior here, will free the demon to go pop a lair NE of capital.

Demos:

Comment: Luckily it's Balseraphs with the GNP. But rest of stats are Orcs. And that MFG hides his true strength - almost double unit production. After our mails yesterday it seems he has gone into production mode (but still heavily into food mode...and on par with me on GNP mode.....*augh*).

We might have given up 'second place' by not taking the NAP. Fortunately there is no such thing.

A little picture about what I feel about Whosit, if he has a NAP to...say 125. Rather than 100-110.


I'm still collecting votes as to what to do.
2 for total war, 0 for normal unit buildup while teching to Mastery Tower.

[Ichabod]

Nice of him to say he will fear my hordes. We shall see.

Let's prove to him that he shouldn't be fearing our hordes!!!!

...

Oh, wait...