RBP3 - [SPOILERS] - Team DIM (Mehmed of HRE)

[meatbalz]

sounds good re: chat. i've thought about the city 2 dilemma and it's true that chariots won't be available for several turns as TW is required not to mention roads to enable the capital to build chariots.

that's about 15 turns from the ETA of having our second city founded. we could could follow the current planned path in DIM - or something along those lines - and only delay chariots by a couple of turns while having a stronger economy and tech rate thanks to early working of the gold tile.

if you guys agree w/ the plan for DIM beyond T39, we actually have a fairly well-coordinated full micro out to city 3 that doesn't blow too much , but bear in mind rsch times are tentative given unknown maintenance costs (not sure what they come to in the sandbox but they come to around 3/4gpt on a test huge/toroidal wrap map). main thing is actually coordinating worker moves between DIM and city 2

real bummer about hernan btw. but he served us well. hernan

[dazedroyalty]

I'm not a micro guy (it's a weakness I know) but if you say we can get to city three quickly after city 2 and around when TW comes in, I'm okay with delaying it. I'm also not experienced on emperor. Either of you know when the barbs come in mass?

[meatbalz]

ok guys, after having a look at the worker turns it's clear we can't have our cake and eat it, i.e. can't get settler for city 3 out on T53 AND get gold city up and running asap.

my head is swimming from the jetlag, a day at work, and all the numbers so this DEFINITELY needs to be double-checked but as best as i can tell, the best option we have is to delay city 3 by 2 turns, as that doesn't waste any worker turns at city 2 during anarchy. this is what i've come up with


DIM

T36 worker done with mine
T37 BW 97/216; settler 78/100, worker to gold/corn city
T38 BW 111/216 settler 89/100
T39 BW 125/216 settler done

T40 BW 139/216 worker 12/60
T41 BW 153/216 worker 24/60
T42 BW 167/216 worker 36/60
T43 BW 181/216 worker 48/60
T44 BW 195/216 warrior 00/15 4/1/2 4/1/0 2/0/1 2/1/1 farm 3t
T45 BW 209/216 warrior 03/15 food 06/26
T46 TW 07/108 warrior 06/15 food 12/26 4/1/2 4/1/0 3/0/1 2/1/1
T47 TW 20/108 warrior 09/15 food 19/26 4/1/2 4/1/0 3/0/1 2/1/1
T48 TW 33/108 warrior 12/15 food 00/28 4/1/2 0/3/0 1/3/1 3/0/1 2/1/1 chop 3t
T49 TW 47/108 settler 05/100 food 04/28 4/1/2 4/1/0 3/0/1 1/3/1 2/1/1
T50 TW 61/108 settler 17/100
T51 TW 75/108 settler 49/100
T52 TW 89/108 settler 61/100 chop 3t
T53 TW 103/108 settler 73/100
T54 Po 09/etc settler 85/100
T55 settler done w/ overflow worker goes to city 3

gold/corn city

T41 monument 00/30 Work 1/2/0 2/1/1 worker chop 3t
T42 monument 03/30 food 01/22
T43 monument 06/30 food 02/22
T44 monument 29/30 food 03/22 work 2/1/1 1/1/1 mine 4t
T45 worker 03/60
T46 worker 06/60
T47 worker 09/60 work 1/2/7 2/1/1
T48 worker 13/60
T49 worker 17/60
T50 worker 21/60
T51 worker 25/60
T52 worker 29/60 chop grass S/SE 3t
T53 worker 33/60
T54 borders pop, worker 37/60
T55 ANARCHY worker1, worker 2 to farm
T56 warrior? 01/15 farm 5t/4t food 03/22
T57 warrior? 07/15 farm 3t/2t food 04/22
T58 warrior? 10/15 farm 1t food 05/22 work 6/0/1 2/1/1
T59 warrior? 11/15 food 11/22
T60 warrior? 12/15 food 17/22
T61 warrior? 13/15 food 01/24 work 6/0/1 1/2/7 2/1/1


please look this over as my head is well and truly gone now

[meatbalz]

alternatively we can produce the settler on T52 by starting it immediately after the worker. we save 3t and 1 chop, miss a warrior and city is size 3 instead of 4 (can grow in 4T while building warrior though).

if we decide to go down that path though we need to ensure a warrior escort so one of our explorers will need to double back.

enough of that, if the lurkers haven't seen it from egypt or india's threads, there are some big developments ongoing as we speak. we've leveraged the scout start, all right

ilios will update i'm sure as the credit is his

[Ilios]

I’ll put up a diplo update soon, but I’d first like to comment on the micro plan, as we’re currently last in turn. I hope MB has access to the game; otherwise we’ll have to wait until Dazed wakes up before we can end the turn…

The problem with the worker plan for Gold city is that we won’t have access to BW till around T45-47 (depending on upkeep costs etc). This means that Stakhanov won’t be able chop that forest as you wanted MB. Therefore, I have had him continue farming the grassland river. We will have to slow build the monument, while mining the gold. The gold tile should compensate for the upkeep costs once it’s up. I suggest we go max gold for 1-2 turns as soon as we found our new city, then max research, which should practically double once gold mine is up.

For DIM, this means that after finishing our settler, we’d better finish our next warrior first (eta 4 turns thanks to micromanaging), which will coincide with growing to size 4. We can then switch to worker. If we go worker first, he’d have nothing else to do besides farming another grassland river, which is absolutely not necessary. Worker will finish 4-5 turns later, and then we can switch to our settler.

Suggested moves:

Cain:
T39 I suggest we rename him, and move SE on forested hill together with settler
T40 move SE again, to cover Stakhanov
T41 i think we can move him to Gold city, as we will be building a new warrior. This will allow Tricky to move towards Carthage to meet up

Stakhanov:
T39 finish farm
T40 move him to the plains forest SE of DIM
T41 move him SE, then SW, which will put him out of our borders, but should be covered by Cain
T42 move SW farm 1 turn, then cancel orders
T43 move S, start mine

Brute:
I would like to move him west to meet up with Ruff, but we’d have to move on 1 tile flatland. The turnplayer can decide which tile would be best (or if he has a better idea how to move east). Aztec is 12 tiles E from India if you want to get your bearings.

Tricky:
Keep moving him north of the river towards our planned city site (i'm really hoping there isn't a newly appeared barb warrior under that fogged tile...)

Attention:

If we decide to start a new warrior iso worker next turn, it is very important, we get 7 shields in first (working 2/1/1 4/1/0 4/1/2 1/3/1). After that we swap the grassland farm for the mine, finishing the warrior three turns later. That way we’ll finish a warrior in 1 turn in case of an emergency, freeing Cain to move to gold site.

MB, do you think you could check for gold site if we can finish monument + warrior and have the warrior finish to coincide with the city growing to size 2?

MB or Dazed, if you can play the turn, I won’t be able until at least another 10 hours…

Praying for copper...

[dazedroyalty]

Turned played. I followed these instructions. No barb in the fog anywhere. Renamed Cain to Khan temporarily. He doesn't like his new name but will put up with the facade to screw those frenchies!

[Ilios]

Great, thanks for playing Dazed, without you Krill would still have been on Civstat, pressing F5 until late tonight... (notice he logged on asa Dazed got in the game)

[meatbalz]

working on micro plan, coming soon...

well, it's not pretty. chopping the monument as soon as BW is available (@ current ETA) speeds it up by 4 turns, which gets the wheat farm into play 4 turns sooner. which allows the city to grow faster, get more tiles into play sooner, etc... so well worth the 20 hammers we use. still, unfortunately our weak starting techs are coming back to bite us in the @rse.

aonther issue is the worker doesn't have a whole lot to do between finishing the chop and starting the farm - i'd suggest pre-chopping the forest NW of the gold tile before laying roads down once TW comes in.

T41 monument 00/30 food 00/22 work 2/0/1 2/1/1
T42 monument 01/30 food 02/22
T43 monument 02/30 food 04/22 worker mines 4t
T44 monument 03/30 food 06/22
T45 monument 04/30 food 08/22
T46 monument 05/30 food 10/22 work 1/2/7 2/1/1
T47 monument 08/30 food 11/22
T48 monument 11/30 food 12/22 worker chops 3t
T49 monument 14/30 food 13/22
T50 monument 17/30 food 14/22
T51 warrior 10/15 food 15/22 worker moves to forest NW of gold
T52 warrior 13/15 food 16/22 worker pre-chops 3t
T53 warrior 01/15 food 17/22 worker pre-chops 2t, cancel
T54 warrior 04/15 food 18/22 current ETA for wheel, if so worker roads 1N of gold
T55 warrior 07/15 food 19/22
T56 warrior 10/15 food 20/22
T57 warrior 13/15 food 21/22
T58 warrior done + city grows

[Ilios]

Ok thanks MB, I have an alternative, if you could have a look and give me your thoughts.

T41 monument 00/30 food 00/22 work 1/2/0 2/1/1
T42 monument 03/30 food 01/22
T43 monument 06/30 food 02/22 worker mines 4t
T44 monument 09/30 food 03/22
T45 monument 12/30 food 04/22
T46 monument 15/30 food 05/22 work 1/2/7 2/1/1
T47 monument 18/30 food 06/22 worker move N, farm (4 turns left)
T48 monument 21/30 food 07/22
T49 monument 24/30 food 08/22
T50 monument 27/30 food 09/22
T51 warrior 00/15 food 10/22 work 3/0/1 2/1/1 worker moves S - SE
T52 warrior 01/15 food 13/22 worker idle 1t
T53 warrior 02/15 food 16/22 worker chop 3t
T54 warrior 03/15 food 19/22
T55 worker 00/60 (warrior 04/15) food 00/24 work 2/1/1 3/0/1 1/2/7
T56 worker 30/60 food 00/22 worker moves W – road 1 turn then cancel action
T57 worker 35/60 food 00/22 worker moves N -NW
T58 worker 40/60 food 00/22 worker chop 3t
T59 worker 45/60 food 00/22
T60 worker 50/60 food 00/22 border pops
T61 warrior 27/15 food 00/22 both workers to corn
T62 Granary 18/30 food 03/22 this is where we start trading around the cheaper techs

Basically, we finish the monument around the same time, but we use the chop to speed up the worker. I'm just not sure that those forest chops give us 25 hammers (before Maths) thanks to EXP trait.

[meatbalz]

and not forgetting the question of settling marble city.

here's a critical paragraph explaining how culture is applied:

To make sure that that's clear, let me describe it another way. Think of the city's potential cultural area as a series of rings. The first ring consists of the city and the 8 surrounding squares. The second ring contains the other 12 squares of the city's production area, and so on. When the city's cultural level is 1, only the first ring gets the points from the city's CPT. When the city's cultural level reaches 2, both first and second ring get the base CPT and the first ring also gets and additional 20 points a turn, even if the city isn't generating any culture at that time. When the city reaches it's third cultural expansion, The inner 9 squares get an extra 40 points, the next ring gets 20 points and so on. At the highest level of culture, the inner ring gets a whopping 100 extra points of plot culture per turn.

i.e. once the ottoman city culture expands to 3rd ring, they'll be putting (assuming a library) 4cpt on the tile to our 1cpt. but if we grow to 3rd ring, we'd be putting 21cpt to their 4cpt.

look at it this way: if we expand to 2nd ring at T0 and ottomans to 3rd ring at T20, we'd lose control of the wheat on T26.

if we were to expand to 2nd ring at T0, ottomans to 3rd at T20, but we chopped a library instead of a monument to begin with (theoretically possible as alphabet's due T62 allowing ottos to trade us writing + city 3 per current micro plan gets founded T57-58), we'd lose control of the wheat for only 5 turns before borders popped again on T45

obviously the numbers are very very approximative but bottom line is, to have a good chance at keeping the wheat we need to get the city founded with a good head start to ottomans and then lobby them to front us writing so we can get a library out asap. honestly otherwise the city doesn't make sense as without the wheat we can't work the mines for hammers.