[SPOILERS] Four Score & Seven Dynasties Ago: Pindicator plays Lincoln of China

[pindicator]

Turn 155

How to improve this trashed economy?

#1. I've got to stop whipping.

Right now i make 30gpt at 0% science. I'm paying over 30gpt in unit costs alone but i'm mot about to delete units with a war going on. There is about 80gpt in city maintenance costs, so courthouses will help. But mostly i need to not touch my commerce cities, and probably let some of the inbetween cities -- like Thwomp, Birdo, and the recently planted Buzzy Beetle and Wiggler -- grow upwards and work more commerce tiles.

On t154 i whipped horse archers across the empire, but that included my best commerce cities. So that may have been shooting myself in the foot a bit.

#2. I've got to stabilize this war

Here is the war situation



Troop composition:

[SIZE="3"]SleepingMoogle's forces:[/SIZE]

Blue Tile
13 HA (4 c2, 1 c1/f1, 1 f2, 1 GG medic3, the rest no promo)
5 cats
1 chariot (sentry)

Barracks Rush
1 axe
1 archer
2 spear
1 cat
1 HA - shock

Sixpool
1 axe
5 spear - 1 c1
2 archer


[SIZE="3"]My Forces[/SIZE]

Green Tile
1 mace
1 HA
6 CKN
1 pike
1 cat
1 treb

Proxy Pylon
5 mace
5 CKN
5 pike
1 chariot - medic

Void Rays
4 spear
2 pike
1 CKN

All other units shown in the pic are in single stacks.

Like i said before, I've been trying to think how we're going to crack Moogle. I have a lot of options with this wide battlefield:

• Head north and capture Four Gate
  
• Build up Horse Archers for a double move on Sixpool or Barracks Rush.
  
• Slow stack CKN / mace / pike stack advance onto Sixpool or Barracks Rush
  
• Hold the line and take the gains already made
  
• Try to eliminate Moogle's army

i'm going to shelve the first idea for now. As I said before, Four Gate would stretch my armies thin and make advancing into Moogle more difficult. Four Gate is going to be my idea of a consolation prize: if other plans don't work and the front alongside Proxy Pylon gets stable then I'll head north to claim ivory and sugar that way.

The second idea I'm dismissing for now but may come back to. Again, I don't want to double move Moogle again if i can do this another way. Not that double moving is wrong, but it is completely unreliable unless I want to camp the clock. Still possible to do, especially on a day when i don't work.

So if i did double move, i would not go after Sixpool. I would take out Bunker Rush and I would burn it to the ground.

Actually, if i were to double move... Forget Bunker Rush. I'd just move whole army out and catch Moogle's army by surprise. I could move 11 CKNs, 6 maces, 6 pikes, and 5-6 HAs next turn. Use maces to take out the Combat2 HAs, then start with the CKN stack attack. I'd wipe his stack out, easily.

Damn, now i want to do this, because I can see just how easy it would work and how effective it would be. Okay, let's keep this in mind and explore other options.

The foolish errand would be a slow moving stack headed for Sixpool. But over hills it may have some chance. The advantage is with the defender because if roads, but we can eliminate that advantage by screening our main stack with 1 or 2 small groups of 1 pike + 2 Geurilla2 CKNs. The small stack(s) move ahead or along side the main stack, pillaging roads along the mountains, preventing Moogle from being able to hit the main stack. He can try to take out the small stack, but i don't think he could eliminate the without losing considerably more hammers than he would destroy. At least, so goes the theory. In practice it's hard to pinpoint a route that he wouldn't be able to shuffle forces around to readjust. And it would be slow - we'd be giving him many turns to build and whip defenders. So while I'm intrigued to see if this could work, I don't have enough faith to try for it.

Next up is defending / baiting Moogle. This is the one i was leaning toward last night. The idea is to leave a decent garrison in Proxy: sizeable but small enough that Moogle thinks he can take it if he commits his forces. Meanwhile my forces stack up on the green tile, where they would be hidden from his view. (I'd probably want to throw a few pikes on the plains hill north of Proxy just to prevent him from scouting my main force via that way.). If he moves his troops against Proxy, or even moves within 2 tiles of Proxy then we attack with our CKNs and maces, like the double move.

I'm tempted to give this a try, and if Moogle doesn't take the bait then we go for the double move. But this means I will once again be double moving Moogle, while I get from his statements in the diplo thread that he is very anti-intentional double move. So I'm going to open this up to lurkers, like I have with my double move plans before: would attempting to double move Moogle's troops be shady or getting close to the line between manipulating the clock on a consistent basis? Again, i understand that double moving now and then is not a problem, but i don't want to turn up in the diplo thread and cause the kind of consternation that LP has caused. So hopefully you guys can help vet my plans a little and we can come up with a plan that wins but also doesn't piss off everybody in the thread.

Internationally, it's no surprise that i no longer hold the beaker lead. LP surely does after picking up Education. But even locally I've been passed by Team FFH as they now have Paper. Sunrise is also very close behind me in total beakers and will pass me soon. Well, this is what i expected, but i need to make this war count for more than just hammer cities. I need riverlands to be able to come back.

I think Liberalism is out as a tech goal. Education is still worthwhile because of cheap Universities and Oxford. But perhaps i need to go along the bottom of the tech tree and get Guilds and Banking since it looks like a number of teams will be racing for Nationalism and Liberalism.

[pindicator]

I should just send the stack in and attack. This sitting around is driving me nuts while the rest of the world techs away. Need more pikes before i can venture out otherwise i'll be leaving Proxy or my stack underdefended against his HA stack.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Turn 155

musings on economic plans, unit composition/placement, soul-searching on whether to continue twisting knife into Moogle's back, search for lurker support

I thought about replying, but really, this should be your answer (non-spoiler):

However, if you do not like that answer, try this one:

Either way, good luck to you. I'm enjoying your thread updates very much.

[pindicator]

Your summary of my long and rambling post was spot on

Thankfully Moogle moved his HA & cat stack into Bunker Rush last turn, so double moving his army is no longer a possibility. But I definitely have an angel & demon mentality. Had this happened early in the game there'd be no question: double move and gain the advantage. That was what the game specifically set itself up to be.

But there's been a strong revisionist movement to eliminate double moves. (Maybe that's what a lot of the complaints against LP boil down to and I just need to shut up in the diplo thread. My only issue with his play has been delaying turns; everything else I put in that diplo thread is posturing.) So do I try to accommodate the revisionists or do I continue to play how the game was worded?

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Play the game to have fun, however that turns out. Just don't be a big jerk about it in the process. That's all the objective advice that I can think of giving. Note: I'm not saying that you or anyone has done this, but this is a good rule for games in general.

Now, subjectively (and in my opinion), I do personally not have an objection to how you have been playing. Would I feel differently if I was playing? Perhaps. Would I feel differently (if I were playing and...) you were gaming the clock to get the turns to line up? Certainly.

As has been repeated ad nauseam in both the public diplo thread and, out of sight, in the lurker thread, we have had players with different notions of how this game would play. I salute Plako for his attempt at a "casual" game, but certainly "casual" means different things to different people, and nothing at all to some. I would call this "casual" game a failed social experiment, but still an entertaining game, so long as the participants are enjoying the experience.

I'm sure we will have plenty of time in the post-game thread to posture and pontificate on where and how the problem lies, and what to do about a "more casual" game in the future. Apologies for the brief hijack.

(Continuing) good luck with the war.

[AutomatedTeller]

I think you are playing with honor. (which isn't to imply that other's aren't, btw - I don't know LP at al, so i can't really comment on him)

[pindicator]

Thanks for the input guys. I admit, I've been more sensitive to this topic because of what happened in both pbem23 and pbem26 -- my first two games. Both times I played without thinking through situations and both times I ended up pissing off a lot of people. While I like being creative and taking advantages where I can find them, I don't want to do it to the point where I become a jerk.

It's quite possible I've gone too far in the other direction, turning my play into the equivalent of a hyper-sensitive, politically-correct workplace.

I also want to attack. So I'm going to attack

[scooter]

But there's been a strong revisionist movement to eliminate double moves. (Maybe that's what a lot of the complaints against LP boil down to and I just need to shut up in the diplo thread. My only issue with his play has been delaying turns; everything else I put in that diplo thread is posturing.) So do I try to accommodate the revisionists or do I continue to play how the game was worded?

FWIW, I agree with and sympathize with this. I'm not sure I can really say more than that or offer you a solution... But you're in a tough spot. Go with your gut IMO - whatever route that is. That's just as likely to be "right" as anything else here.

[pindicator]

Naturally, my spy was captured this turn I think that makes 3 spies in less than 10 turns. I have a fourth on its way to the battle field. So I sent a sentry chariot in and it spied 13 HA and 8 catapults in Bunker Rush. I could feel comfortable advancing with an army around 25 units. I have that number, but it leaves nobody to guard Proxy Pylon.

Option #2 is to send it a bunch of 2-promo CKNs along with the stack. Probably 20 - 30 of them. Double move Moogle again and take out his army under all the collateral of G2 CKNs.

Also, Void Rays comes out of revolt next turn. I need to go back and look at names that have been recommended but you can still nominate others too

[pindicator]

Turn 158

Once the city is out of revolt, I figure it's mine to rename:



I went with Swooper (thanks Treskie!) because I "swooped" in and stole it. Next turn we move against Four Gate. I have my army of 18 1-movers, along with half a dozen horse archers that will stay back as support in case Moogle tries something when my army is away. Right now only Hammer Bros is making units, but it 1-turns anything I ask it to build, so I have a steady stream of 2-promo CKNs coming up to the front.

Demographics:



Next turn Proxy Pylon will come out of revolt, and we have our next Great Person born. This is the one we've been saving gold for, waiting to find out which tech we go after next.