Leader / Civ selection

[Cyneheard]

HRE is THE classic sucker's pick. Even more than Rome itself.

[DMOC]

I like Egypt as well, due to nice starting techs and a great UU. This would also serve the purpose of denying a rush-happy opponent the chance to wreak havoc upon us. Here are some of the others I considered:

-Ottoman
-Ethiopian
-Byzantium
-Rome
-India (already taken)
-HRE (already taken, but this was low on my high-civ list ... the only reason why I'm considering them is the huge advantage of rathauses on emperor/toroidal maps, if the settings are what I think...)

Overall, I guess we're going to be going with Egypt? My second choice would be the Ottomans (or Byzantium?), as I believe they should give us some nice quick military (draftable) with janissaries if needed ... they're not a top UU to me, but I do think they are respectable.

Just to throw out another possibility -- what do you think of Byzantium and their UU?

[Lord Parkin]

Main problem with Byzantium is that one of the starting techs is weak (Myst/Wheel). Pretty good as a long-term investment though. But then again, surely we expect to be ahead of many teams by that point in the game anyway?

Oh, and on a different topic, I reckon there's a chance CivPlayers might take Sumeria with Holy Rome gone.

[sunrise089]

I favor Mali and then Egypt. I'd also be fine with Ottomans and even Byzantium - I know the techs are lousy, but I trust this team to do a great job of managing a tech beeline followed by lots of production.

@T-Hawk - The thing with Zulu (and Mali offensively) is you have to decide in advance to be aggressive or at least opportunistic (or dickish, depending on your perspective). Skirms and Impis aren't going to do well at all attacking prepared defenses, and if you're talking about a surprise attack in force (so versus someone not tracking demos or having a sentry net) plain ole' chariots work just as well and WCs work better. Where Skirms and Impis shine are as choking/harassing units since they're really tough to kill. Impis get an added bonus as possibly the best exposed-worker/exposed-settler attackers. In any of those cases though you're making an enemy without knocking them out of the game. In the recent RBP7 there was lots of that sort of thing, but that game heavily nerfed diplo and alliances. In the Apolyton demogame things were much friendlier all around. I don't profess to be the expert at the current ideal MP-meta, but I do think we should be confident we'd be willing to snipe someone's unit before picking Zulu.

[Cyneheard]

Main problem with Byzantium is that one of the starting techs is weak (Myst/Wheel). Pretty good as a long-term investment though. But then again, surely we expect to be ahead of many teams by that point in the game anyway?

Oh, and on a different topic, I reckon there's a chance CivPlayers might take Sumeria with Holy Rome gone.

I actually think Org Sumeria is a mistake, as you're already getting 1/2 the Org Courthouse bonus just by being Sumeria, and the bonuses don't stack terribly efficiently: is it any easier to build a 45h courthouse compared to a 60h one?

[Lord Parkin]

I actually think Org Sumeria is a mistake, as you're already getting 1/2 the Org Courthouse bonus just by being Sumeria, and the bonuses don't stack terribly efficiently: is it any easier to build a 45h courthouse compared to a 60h one?

A 45 hammer Courthouse available at Priesthood is a lot easier to build than a 60 hammer one available at Code of Laws. Not sure it's really necessary to get them built that early maintenance-wise though... not going to save you a whole lot while your empire is small. Good for masses of early EP's though.

[Lord Parkin]

I favor Mali and then Egypt.

Mali requires early focus a dead-end tech for their UU though... whereas Egypt enables theirs researching a tech they'll want anyway.

I'd also be fine with Ottomans and even Byzantium - I know the techs are lousy, but I trust this team to do a great job of managing a tech beeline followed by lots of production.

I'd be interested to see us with Byzantium in its full glory. Though our start would be a little slower.

[Shoot the Moon]

Also worth noting, Egypt has the added benefit of dealing with emperor level barbs quite nicely since war chariots are nice and mobile.

[Cyneheard]

Also worth noting, Egypt has the added benefit of dealing with emperor level barbs quite nicely since war chariots are nice and mobile.

Good point. Sold.

[scooter]

Emperor level barbs with humans is not a serious threat. It's really different when you don't have AIs inflating their technological level. (I still favor Egypt though)