American Politics Discussion Thread

[Boro]

This quote is taken out of context all over the place.  It's not talking about socialism/communism, or poverty or deprivation or anything like that.  It means that you won't own things because everything will be renting or gig economy instead - like you won't own a car because it'll be cheaper and easier to order up a self-driving uber, or because the companies will sell everything in terms of services rather than ownership.  Whether the quote is accurate remains to be seen, but it's not anti-capitalism or anti-property like everybody tries to interpret it as.

Many find that to be a perfectly sinister vision of the future all on its own.

Well, since every private property business eventually consolidates to be mostly owned by a handful of financiers (which makes those decision makers incredibly powerful if organized together into a coordinated group), there is no doubt that any ownership would be similarly consolidated that way, and the average human would be even more dependent on their goodwill, precisely because of how property rights work unless regulated, by the same people who are also indebted to those financial kingmakers (through a hard-to-follow system of intermediaries).

So the answer to less suffering is to let autocrats do whatever they want? History says that is not the answer. I would say more support would reduce this a lot faster. [...]

Of course I disagree on your perspective. 

Nono, he's right! Just think a little about it and you'll see too

----

Meanwhile we have our leader (Orbán Viktor) go "MAGA there, MEGA here" in his annual evaluation speech (also called "State of the Nation" after western practices).

We cannot interfere in other countries' elections, but we would very much like to see President Donald Trump return to the White House and make peace here in the eastern. half of Europe. It is time for another “Make America Great Again” presidency in the United States.

We ourselves are preparing for a presidency. I am talking about the Hungarian EU Presidency. Make Europe Great Again! Over there MAGA, over here MEGA. Incidentally, Zoltán Mága [the violinist] if here with us today.

I guess what goes around, comes around. (or the other way)

[Charr Babies]

Everyone wants to do business with China. Business is for profit, and profit first. 

And China has already declared in 1921 when Biden took power, "The US does not have the qualification to speak to China from a position of strength"
You know, it is getting easier and easier to "invade" Taiwan such as now, when we are preoccupied and stretch thin. That is not what China wants as long as there's still a glimmer of hope on diplomacy. While you still think Japan and Korea will join us to fight China over Taiwan, I am thinking, NOT. At what cost vs gain. What can we gain from a war with China. What can we lose on a war with China. It makes no sense, and least economical sense. It's all postering. A collapsed US economy can have devastating effects on the global scale. So does a collapsed China economy.

 
This trade war vs China charade started with Trump but some hoped Biden would ease off, at least not escalate the damages to both sides. The Biden regime has got to be the worst in foreign politics and read the room completely wrong, especially with China. 
Before Biden, the Chinese would respond to US attacks/smears with something like "We strongly oppose to ...." as politic dictates, and leave it at that. They have to respond so it's not admission by silence.

However, since the Alaska 2+2 summit in 1921 when Biden took power, China not only give standard responses but also counterattack US on the same subject. China has had enough with the us BS. As seen in the first 30 seconds of the following vid.

0:36 The interpreter, "The US does not have the qualification to speak to China from a position of strength", "not even 20-30 years ago"
A rather mild translation. For someone who understands the language and the nuances of the chosen words, the inflection, the body language of the speaker Yang Jiechi, it pretty well translates to "Bring it on, we are ready to go to war with you". Especially the body language, it is that of a father scolding a stupid son. 





This is not to start a US vs China debate, or China is even worse, yada, yada, yada. I just wanted to footnote/backup what I said in the previous post, that I didn't pull it out of my a$$

Full hour video is here

Where the beautiful interpreter, Zhang Jing, gone viral, mainly for her straight 16 minutes of interpretation when Yang Jiechi talked without pause. Even Blinken joked she deserves a raise.

[darrelljs]

But China is even worse!!!!1!

Darrell

[superdeath]

 "Bring it on, we are ready to go to war with you".

This is not to start a US vs China debate, or China is even worse, yada, yada, yada. I just wanted to footnote/backup what I said in the previous post, that I didn't pull it out of my a$$

I also dont wish to debate. However i had to laugh at that part. Yeah, no one wins a nuclear war.. but China is still a long ways off from being "ready to go to war with you" At their current pace of rapid military build up (for a catastrophic invasion of Taiwan?) Id expect them to be a military rival on par with how the USSR was during the cold war in about 10-15 years.

[Mjmd]

I'm a big fan of Perun so I'll leave a link here on Chinese military modernization, which is only 12 days old at this point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckouoTDkrtQ

[Charr Babies]

 "Bring it on, we are ready to go to war with you".
This is not to start a US vs China debate, or China is even worse, yada, yada, yada. I just wanted to footnote/backup what I said in the previous post, that I didn't pull it out of my a$$

I also dont wish to debate. However i had to laugh at that part. Yeah, no one wins a nuclear war.. but China is still a long ways off from being "ready to go to war with you" At their current pace of rapid military build up (for a catastrophic invasion of Taiwan?) Id expect them to be a military rival on par with how the USSR was during the cold war in about 10-15 years.

Mjmd
I'm a big fan of Perun so I'll leave a link here on Chinese military modernization, which is only 12 days old at this point.

Sorry, I have watch enough vids, read enough so called analysis, bravado, from both sides that I would want to sit through an other hour of mumble jumbo. It is enough for me that China think they are ready. Anything else, the outcome, is just speculations.

First, China doesn't need to take Taiwan. As soon as China establishes air superiority, Taiwan is a goner, for the taking at leisure. One thing people keep ignoring is that Taiwan is an island within Chinese borders. Unlike Ukraine, you cannot resupply Taiwan other than what is already there. They may survive a few weeks without import of food and energy. 

I tend to believe The Chinese is capable, if only because they are playing defense - The Home Base Advantage.
That's a long supply line us has to maintain, without disturbance (you think?), for a long drawn-out war. 
If the carrier groups even dare to get that close to begin with. 
You need to know the first and second island chains, (3rd too?) are expected to be leveled as soon as shit hits the fan.

And some people say the PLA is not experienced. Neither is the us army, in fighting modern warfare, with someone who has all the high tech toys, with anyone who can fight back. * lol that it cost us over 2 mil and a fighter jet to shoot down a weather balloon. 

What wars has the us won or lost?

Besides, war is about economy and production capabilities. How much debt is us in already? China can produce at 1/5 of our cost and at least twice our pace. Does the us have enough rare earth in inventory to replenish equipment loss?

It is enough for me that China think they are ready, at the top level. If anyone tells you they know for sure who will win, take them to the nut house. I only know, whoever win there'll be hell to pay for the world.

Anymore pissing contest here is no more than speculations, from a civilian point of view. You and me both.

Id expect them to be a military rival on par with how the USSR was during the cold war in about 10-15 years.

You really need to get out of your filter bubble

[Mjmd]

I do recommend that video. He gives a pretty fair assessment and definitely notes their areas of continued improvement. Their own stated goal is to be equal to US by 2035. China could 100% take Taiwan but what would the consequences be? That is why alliances are important. That is why helping Europe now is important. Something pointed out in that video is also that the economies of Russia and China are very different. Russia's exports majority hydrocarbons that can easily just be sold to someone else even if for cheaper. China exports stuff and while it might suck to have to source elsewhere or cause pain to do so, they can't just switch to exporting their stuff elsewhere. Their economy is also tied and dependent on many western nations. Now will this stop them? Dictators need to prove strong, so maybe not. But is that a win? Take Taiwan but hurt your own economy. You can sell that as a win to your populace buts its probably better for west in the long run.

[superdeath]

China has Rockets. Their aircraft is sub-par. Barely better than Russia's. The only Air Superiority that China would have in such a conflict would be exactly that, Rockets. You can resupply Taiwan. China isnt going to Cuban missile crisis Taiwan. Providing the USA doesnt go to war over Taiwan anyway. China hasnt fought any kind of meaningful war since what? WW2? The USA has been at war... Alot. The last modern war we fought was the Iraq war. Iraq was something like the 4th? 5th? Strongest military power at the time, and a mostly USA coalition had them demolished. Cant say that wasnt a modern war. Afghanistan ect, its fair to say that isnt/wasnt one.

"""Besides, war is about economy and production capabilities. How much debt is us in already? China can produce at 1/5 of our cost and at least twice our pace. Does the us have enough rare earth in inventory to replenish equipment loss?""""

USA has a bigger Economy. Production capability as far as? Total war USA. Building all kinds of random stuff? China. Building Military outside of Total War? USA. China's 1/5 our production cost (if u believe that) is very typical when you build sub-par equipment compared to your rival. AND if you believe that China makes the same quality of Aircraft/ect as the USA... then i wont discus military matters with you any longer. They have been known to steal/"find" USA blueprints and build copycats. Also to close this off, while the USA doesnt have a ton of rare earth metals, it does have enough to win a fight against China, however bloody it would be.


Not trying to say China isnt capable of defending against the USA on a purely defensive homefront based encounter, But outside of their rocket range they stand no chance. And any attempt to attack Taiwan would end tragically for many reasons.

[Charr Babies]

The point was Biden has failed in diplomacy on many fronts, and China is standing up to the bully.

FAV'd that vid. I might check out that vid if I ever get bored enuf to visit my FAV folder.

As I have always maintained "no one wins", you are not only preaching to the choir, you are preaching to the pope. The other points are better discussed at other times under different topics so its not a pissing contest. However, 

That is why helping Europe now is important.

I hope you don't genuinely believe we are helping Europe, with the Ukraine war, and now middle east with Israel. Sigh
I keep thinking why do we always stand on the wrong side of history. When is the next 911?

[Mjmd]

I really don't think a direct war is likely. Blockade; maybe. Sanctions; certainly. But because direct war isn't likely, neither is resupply of Taiwan.

Everyone likes doing the US vs China endless rhetoric, but they always ignore that US is unlikely to be alone if that awful scenario would result. Again, alliances are important. I will say again China is probably fine taking and holding Taiwan capability wise (and certainly in 5-10 years). The question is what happens next and what costs will it have to pay to do so. They key is to knock it into a dictators head that it is in fact a bad idea. Doesn't always work. See history.