American Politics Discussion Thread

[superdeath]

Biden and trump both ill agree suck at diplomacy.

I can see Mjmd's point, If Russia takes over Ukraine it gets closer and closer to taking a stab at Europe or at least other countries that (rightfully) have the chance/choice to join EU/NATO whatever they want. What peeves me off about Russia is though in their shoes they are being cornered, they are the ones being actively aggressive towards any country thinking about joining and it becomes a cascading effect. I do hope that Ukraine gets its land back and joins whatever it wants to join. And if fair elections are done and certain parts of Ukraine would like to separate so be it. I believe that should be a right period.

Aye, no one wins. Can agree on that

[Charr Babies]

I really don't think a direct war is likely. Blockade; maybe. Sanctions; certainly. But because direct war isn't likely, neither is resupply of Taiwan.

Everyone likes doing the US vs China endless rhetoric, but they always ignore that US is unlikely to be alone if that awful scenario would result. Again, alliances are important. I will say again China is probably fine taking and holding Taiwan capability wise (and certainly in 5-10 years). The question is what happens next and what costs will it have to pay to do so. They key is to knock it into a dictators head that it is in fact a bad idea. Doesn't always work. See history.

read above

[Mjmd]

Biden has built and enforced many Pacific specific alliances (both economic and military). NATO members are no longer saying its brain dead, so that is probably an improvement. I would recommend not just listening to talking points and actually look at the work done.

Let me guess its better for Europe to have Russia run over a democracy and put up no resistance. Listen even if it was say a random middle east country that Russia invaded it would still be in our interest to supply aid (see history). But considering Europe is putting up money and military aid I think its safe to say they care.

[superdeath]

I really don't think a direct war is likely. Blockade; maybe. Sanctions; certainly. But because direct war isn't likely, neither is resupply of Taiwan.

Everyone likes doing the US vs China endless rhetoric, but they always ignore that US is unlikely to be alone if that awful scenario would result. Again, alliances are important. I will say again China is probably fine taking and holding Taiwan capability wise (and certainly in 5-10 years). The question is what happens next and what costs will it have to pay to do so. They key is to knock it into a dictators head that it is in fact a bad idea. Doesn't always work. See history.

Other than the international outrage/ect.. the MAIN issue is the Superconductors/chips ect that Taiwan has a HUGE HUGE monopoly on. As the years have went on, more and more Taiwan citizens see themselves as Taiwanese rather than Chinese. Id bet that they would be more inclined to blow up the facilities than let them fall into China's hands. OR, they could just be blown up in the middle of the take over. ect.

[Charr Babies]

Biden has built and enforced many Pacific specific alliances (both economic and military). NATO members are no longer saying its brain dead, so that is probably an improvement. I would recommend not just listening to talking points and actually look at the work done.

Let me guess its better for Europe to have Russia run over a democracy and put up no resistance. Listen even if it was say a random middle east country that Russia invaded it would still be in our interest to supply aid (see history). But considering Europe is putting up money and military aid I think its safe to say they care.

We know the war is caused by us aggression.  

You have got to stop trying to sell that democracy BS. When you say in the name of democracy, it is as offensive to me as saying "in the name of god". It's obscene!

[Mjmd]

Ah yes all wars throughout history of empires trying to regain lost territory has always been someone elses aggression. SIGH. NATO IS NOT OFFENSIVE ORGANIZATION. You can find countless articles and logic disputing this. You can look at history and just notice the trend of empires trying to regain what they think is theirs (no matter what the people who live there think). There is always an excuse for war, but most of them throughout history are just excuses; don't fall for the excuse. Also, if the point of the invasion was to prevent NATO enlargement, Russia lost. NATO gained members and is rearming.

I was merely pointing out that Europe has a lot of democracies and Ukraine is also a democracy so there is a dynamic there. Its not only that they are democracy. I doubt Europe would care if Russia invaded Mongolia, but it is a factor.

[Charr Babies]

Ah yes all wars throughout history of empires trying to regain lost territory has always been someone elses aggression. SIGH. NATO IS NOT OFFENSIVE ORGANIZATION. You can find countless articles and logic disputing this. You can look at history and just notice the trend of empires trying to regain what they think is theirs (no matter what the people who live there think). There is always an excuse for war, but most of them throughout history are just excuses; don't fall for the excuse. Also, if the point of the invasion was to prevent NATO enlargement, Russia lost. NATO gained members and is rearming.

I was merely pointing out that Europe has a lot of democracies and Ukraine is also a democracy so there is a dynamic there. Its not only that they are democracy. I doubt Europe would care if Russia invaded Mongolia, but it is a factor.

Such hypocrisy. You know, most of your sound bites are not wrong but the problem is your double standards. You deem American expansion in Europe is a good thing and yet we shit our pants and ready to start a nuclear war when Russia wanted to move a few nukes to Cuba. What will we do if Russia and China start building military bases in South America - to encircle the enemy as you so proudly speak of us military bases. 

The list is long on your hypocrisy.....

NATO is not SUPPOSE TO BE an offensive organization! Too early to call a win while the war is still on going. This war has open many eyes to our ruses. Saudis befriends Iran, the Middle East is taking China's lead and begins to reunite. France has kissed up to China, demanded that Europe reduces its reliance on the us. Other countries who suffered directly due to the us aggression are not blinded to the fact that while they all pay the price in food and energy crisis and their economy on the blink of collapse, but the us is profiting from the war. They do not have the guts to stand up to the bully, but they are not blind, they know what we do. Why most of them just pay lip service to sanctions on Russia. (and why we had to blow up the pipeline). Why most of them are kissing up to China. Why Brics++++++++ is getting more +s as we speak.

BRICS IS NOT SUPPOSE TO BE AN OFFENSIVE ORGANIZATION. It's just show where the tide goes. It's a slap in our face. It's a big "fuck you" to us rules, SANCTIONS, and dollar hegemony. Thanks to the shit we stirred up in Europe and Middle East, we are losing allies and BRICS is gaining momentum. Wake up and smell the roses. You really need to get out of your media bubble.

[greenline]

The purpose of NATO, as stated by Lord Hastings Lionel Ismay, NATO's first secretary general, was "to keep the Soviets out, the Americans in, and the Germans down". You can read as such on their website: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/decla...137930.htm.

It's easy to defend stuff once you've conquered it, so of course it was necessary first to send in American forces throughout Europe, so now they can defend it. If for whatever reason those forces ever find themselves dislodged, you will undoubtedly hear cries from these supposed defensive peaceniks about how Europe must be offensively liberated from whatever force has seized it.

[Charr Babies]

China has Rockets. Their aircraft is sub-par. Barely better than Russia's. The only Air Superiority that China would have in such a conflict would be exactly that, Rockets. You can resupply Taiwan. China isnt going to Cuban missile crisis Taiwan. Providing the USA doesnt go to war over Taiwan anyway. China hasnt fought any kind of meaningful war since what? WW2? The USA has been at war... Alot. The last modern war we fought was the Iraq war. Iraq was something like the 4th? 5th? Strongest military power at the time, and a mostly USA coalition had them demolished. Cant say that wasnt a modern war. Afghanistan ect, its fair to say that isnt/wasnt one.

"""Besides, war is about economy and production capabilities. How much debt is us in already? China can produce at 1/5 of our cost and at least twice our pace. Does the us have enough rare earth in inventory to replenish equipment loss?""""

USA has a bigger Economy. Production capability as far as? Total war USA. Building all kinds of random stuff? China. Building Military outside of Total War? USA.  China's 1/5 our production cost (if u believe that) is very typical when you build sub-par equipment compared to your rival. AND if you believe that China makes the same quality of Aircraft/ect as the USA... then i wont discus military matters with you any longer. They have been known to steal/"find" USA blueprints and build copycats. Also to close this off, while the USA doesnt have a ton of rare earth metals, it does have enough to win a fight against China, however bloody it would be.


Not trying to say China isnt capable of defending against the USA on a purely defensive homefront based encounter, But outside of their rocket range they stand no chance. And any attempt to attack Taiwan would end tragically for many reasons.

NEWS FLASH
Canadians, (you know, that little country north of our border) most of them don't live in igloos anymore. And some of them can even afford snowshoes so they don't have to walk to school barefooted 

We have already established no one wins and you are still trying to prove you have a bigger dick!   WoW, BIG DICK 

[superdeath]

China has Rockets. Their aircraft is sub-par. Barely better than Russia's. The only Air Superiority that China would have in such a conflict would be exactly that, Rockets. You can resupply Taiwan. China isnt going to Cuban missile crisis Taiwan. Providing the USA doesnt go to war over Taiwan anyway. China hasnt fought any kind of meaningful war since what? WW2? The USA has been at war... Alot. The last modern war we fought was the Iraq war. Iraq was something like the 4th? 5th? Strongest military power at the time, and a mostly USA coalition had them demolished. Cant say that wasnt a modern war. Afghanistan ect, its fair to say that isnt/wasnt one.

"""Besides, war is about economy and production capabilities. How much debt is us in already? China can produce at 1/5 of our cost and at least twice our pace. Does the us have enough rare earth in inventory to replenish equipment loss?""""

USA has a bigger Economy. Production capability as far as? Total war USA. Building all kinds of random stuff? China. Building Military outside of Total War? USA.  China's 1/5 our production cost (if u believe that) is very typical when you build sub-par equipment compared to your rival. AND if you believe that China makes the same quality of Aircraft/ect as the USA... then i wont discus military matters with you any longer. They have been known to steal/"find" USA blueprints and build copycats. Also to close this off, while the USA doesnt have a ton of rare earth metals, it does have enough to win a fight against China, however bloody it would be.


Not trying to say China isnt capable of defending against the USA on a purely defensive homefront based encounter, But outside of their rocket range they stand no chance. And any attempt to attack Taiwan would end tragically for many reasons.

NEWS FLASH
Canadians, (you know, that little country north of our border) most of them don't live in igloos anymore. And some of them can even afford snowshoes so they don't have to walk to school barefooted 

We have already established no one wins and you are still trying to prove you have a bigger dick!   WoW, BIG DICK 

Neither one of us brought up Canada last i checked. No shit they dont live in igloos, ect. Im not brain dead. You would do well not to insult people, have rational discussions. Yes, im explaining in more detail WHY no one wins, but that it still greatly favors one nation over another. Tough shit.