Hmmm. You know, when I was making our initial sims, I popped a gems on, like, turn 20. Still, this is pretty welcome.
Stinks about Yuri, though. Still, longbows on flatland lose to knights, not to mention collateral (are we getting construction, btw? Cats will be moderately helpful, since they do more collateral than Cho-ku-nos. However, if it wasn't already in our plans, it will delay us a few turns.) Also, remember to build up overflow right before unlocking the knights, and to a lesser extent the Cho-ku-nos, etc.
Edit: Only one suggestion that I can see. We're still losing 1 gold per turn to unity supply. Why don't we pull that axeman and spearman back from the hill by Yuri? They aren't really giving us much vision that we don't have, and we could use them as mp. They are preventing Yuri from roading to that hill, but I wouldn't mind if he does, since we would hopefully use said theoretical road.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Will do. Our happy issue is mostly solved, as were running out of food/good tiles to grow onto in our main cities. Seems as good time as any to start prebuilding units for war.
I hadn't originally planned on using cats, since there is no way to make them keep up with 2 movers which would slow our attack considerably. Construction is probably the first tech to get after Guilds though, in case yuri counterattacks and/or enroute to Engineering.
Good point about the sentries, I pulled them back. Also what is your opinion for a dotmap in the south?
Uhh, I haven't thought about dotmapping the South. I won't have time to check until my Friday or Saturday, but will definitely take a look then.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Serdoa wandered a galley through one of yuri's cities we can see, so now we have contact with the game leader. He has approximately 33% more pop then we do and 50% better economy (judging from max gpt). If we are going to make an effort to catch up to Serdoa, we'll almost certainly have to do it through yuri.
Also, if you spot anything for workers to do, let me know. I've more or less run out of jobs for them to do on the mainland and on the southern island.
Giong to take an in-depth look at everything now. I'll post my thoughts on worker actions and dotmapping.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
1) I sent you the reasoning why over gmail, but I think that we should put a turn into an archer in penne this turn, then whip it next turn, overflowing into the courthouse. I made the change, but if I don't here from you before I go to bed, I'll change it back.
2) If we're building another archer in Ravioli, which doesn't have happiness problems (other options: forge, barracks, courthouse, lighthouse), we should send one or two of the archers that it has now south to Ziti and perhaps Gnocchi since they will soon have/already have happiness problems. I'm not sure if you were planning on using the galley for something else, though (probably moved it there in case Yuri opened borders), but since it hasn't yet been moved this turn, I think that this is a good idea. I did not make this move unless you disagree.
3) One worker action that might be important is roading the tile 1S of Tortellini. Due to its peninsular location and bordering mountain, we currently only have two roads leading to it, one NE and one SE. This is just a little insurance.
4) You're pretty right that otherwise, our workers have little to do on the mainland. I suggest keeping a few (1 or 2) ready for when we decide to attack. This is normally a sign that we should keep expanding, so perhaps we should shuttle a few South (maybe on the same galley as a mp for Ziti/Gnocchi, or on it's return trip, or perhaps on the other galley; I'm not usre if you have any plans for that one) and whip/build another settler. Just having workers sit around is lame, though sometimes unavoidable. Is there anyplace where we can fit another settler build soon?
Now, the screenshot of how I would dotmap the explored South (really stinks about our chariot losing a better than 88% shot to that barb axe) :
The spot simple marked "City?" should probably be the first city of the ones we make in the south.
I also marked, with signs, two super filler locations that might not ever be really worth it. Maybe with something like Free Market or State Property or if we ever hit the new city maintenance cost plateau and have some foodhammers to spare.
Edit: I'm going to bed, so I'm going to change it back. Kurumi and slow still haven't played, so hopefully you can take a look before next turn.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
WarriorKnight: heh
just seeing your post in the thread now me: Ah, cool WarriorKnight: btw, if you want to change anything in-game, feel free to do so
i dont usually keeps micro plans longer then a few turns me: Okay. I just know that I don't always see everything that you plan to do. WarriorKnight: and especially at this stage i dont think we really need them that badly
fair enough
if it doesnt affect war plans then i probably dont mind me: Okay. If you want, and agree with what I posted (since I might as well ask if you've now read them), I can still go and make the changes this turn.
Ah, makes sense
Do we need that northern galley for anything? WarriorKnight: i dont think any city on the far southern island can help with the war effort, so you can do whatever there
you mean the one built recently? me: Not sure, it has 2 moves left for this turn
but is in port, so probably WarriorKnight: ok, then yeah it was built this turn
it was meant to scout yuri, but i had another galley available for that and that obviously didnt work out
if anything, it might help us amphibiously attack yuri E border city me: Okay. How many turns in the future approximately is that? WarriorKnight: erm
well we're 3t from machinery
are you ingame?
doesnt look like it me: Logged out right before I logged into gmail. I can get on in a heartbeat, though WarriorKnight: well we still need to research guilds and build an army
guilds is pretty expensive me: yeah, it's the army building thing that I don't really know the timeframe
I assume the logic is, guess how many units we'll need, then build a fair bit more? WarriorKnight: well, considering that its almost do or die, i think we build as much as we can in a short period of time me: Got to guess that Yuri will at least slightly react to our build-u
Okay, makes sense WarriorKnight: no-one has alpha, so that should help
our power has been rising slightly, but obviously itll be a big jump once we start building an army for reals me: Yes, and he obviously does not have tech visibility
At least, I think that he doesn;t
I don't remember tthe formula WarriorKnight: i doubt it
Sent at 4:19 AM on Sunday
WarriorKnight: i think we may need to stack whip overflow in our main cities to have a chance at yuri
kinda sucks, but yuri is getting a better empire each day and we're falling behind me: Makes sense
Yeah, I'm just glad that he currently doesn't have much except some oldish junk on the frontline
Well, it's not currently that old, but it will be soon WarriorKnight: he'll have maces by the time we attack
probably not pikes unless he goes engineering before feudalism, but unless he can tell what we're planning that seems unlikely
wish we had more map info, OB a bit earlier on would've been nice
ah well
Sent at 4:23 AM on Sunday me: Yeah. I personally was really caught off guard by how quickly he expanded towards us. He settled something like 4 cities in our direction in 12 turns. I also got our first scout killed before he could walk over there. Okay, so it looks it'll take us about 12 or 11 turns to get through guilds. As soon as we get iron up, we should start building auxiliary units, and we should be building barracks (and in some cities, forges) asap. This is also plenty of time to use the galley and then return it to the front. Maybe it can even bring a Cho-ku-no or two with it... WarriorKnight: def. barracks everywhere
well, not the very southern island, i doubt anything there can do anything within a reasonable timeframe
anyone not building a forge right now probably wont benefit building one before we attack me: Yeah, you're probably right there. Should I switch to one in ravioli? We have six hammers invested into an archer there, but plenty of spare happiness and random military units.
Yeah. You're right. All our really, really high prdocution cities already have forges. WarriorKnight: i can never remember what each city is called, which is raviolli? me: Ah, sorry. It's the one of most Northern ones, the size 11 one.
The one with the ivory WarriorKnight: border city? yeah barracks there def. me: Okay, cool
Should we also plan for a second wave of military, especially from the mainland? It's not exactly effiicent, but we might need the reinforcements WarriorKnight: that depends
what exactly are we aiming for with our attack?
ie. how many cities
Sent at 4:31 AM on Sunday me: Well, we definitely want his two cities that border us, Nodwengu and the one on which we don't have visibility. I don't think that is enough, however, plus, if he doesn't respond quickly, he has few units in Ulandi and Bulwayo, the next set of cities. Both are on hills, but that should only be a minor problem. That will also cut him off, at least on land, from another city, of which we don't know the name, to the West
Sent at 4:33 AM on Sunday
me: Now, that's a better hall, and probably doable in one fell swoop. However, we have no visibility of this region, but I also expect him to have some cities nearer to Sian, probably also on flatland and at least partially isolatable by our attack. If we can grab another city or two, than I'm fine with a 6 city haul (He has 15 cities total). However, we might want to continue further. With taking just those cities, we severely wound him, but do not prevent him from seeking revenge. Also, a second wave could go to one of the isolated places, if we successfully penetrate. I think that we should plan on a second (or third, I suppose) wave coming out of the mainland cities. what do you think is a good number of knights for this? I have practically no mp war experience. WarriorKnight: well, it's a question with no obvious answer
now that i think about it, we should starting building HA's ASAP
its very likely he could go straight for engineering, and he could probably start building pikes the same time as knights in which case we probably wont go anywhere fast
still, we should be getting a GA which will help
Sent at 4:40 AM on Sunday
WarriorKnight: for mp war, we really need to be going all out building units nonstop or close to it, its too easy to whip defenders if hearthearted
halfhearted* Sent at 4:41 AM on Sunday me: Yeah. Okay, I'm going to switch Ravioli to barracks and make the other changes I mentioned, plus change SPaghettit (city#2, the one with no base produciton but a ton of food) from a forge to a barracks. We can whip that soon, then overflow into what we want, possibly a horse archer as a pre-build. WarriorKnight: sounds good
do we have any chariots with 5xp unpromoted? me: Or overflow into, finish, than overflow out of that lighthouse (needs like 8 more hammers)
Let me check
Yes, 2
WarriorKnight: ok, we need some sentries to scout out map info up north, better we use chariots for that then HA's
me: Also switching Fettucine (the closest of the far south island cities, barely any further than Ziti) from a forge (0 hammers invested) to a barracks.
Agreed.
Sent at 4:45 AM on Sunday me: Okay, I think that's it. I'm going to log off and go to bed now.
Have a good day WarriorKnight: alright, good night
ill focus more on a war footing for sure me: Cool, awesome.
Oh, did you know that slow's axe has returned? It's on that hill outside our borders WarriorKnight: yeah, saw that
but we can kill it easily
if its annoying me: okay. Probably nothing about which to worry. Hopefully he'll stay neutral anyway. He's in a prime position to benefit from Yuri collapsing, too. WarriorKnight: i think we will need to kill his axe before the war too
but its alright for now
anyway, cya me: Peace
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
OK, I went through and made a couple of changes you suggested. I think I've figured out a plan for most of the pre-war stuff now, if you want to know about something don't hesitate to ask but I don't think you should make any other moves otherwise. It's kinda hard to explain everything that's going on.
On another note, I was greeting by this:
If he hadn't declared on us previously, I might give some thought to this. But with no trade route income the only thing we get is 10t access to a happy which I will almost certainly fail to remember about and will probably mess with me more then it should once he inevitably cancels it. It also delays our Guilds rush and lets him scout our land which, so far I might add to my knowledge, no-one else has seen that much of (Sian hasn't sent anything through our lands to my knowledge, and he's our only OB partner). So I declined.
Serdoa also offered OB, but with no knowledge of his location and one of his units on our border, it was easy to turn down. If he declares, I've put a turn of hammers into a Trireme in our NW semi-filler city that can whipped next turn and eliminate the pest. Of course, I'm hoping we won't have to resort to that, but at least we have a plan should said worst case scenario happen.
slow offered OB again, this time 50 gold cheaper on our part instead offering banana. No slow, I have no reason to accept OB until I can get past yuri's border. Also Serdoa declared war, but that was already anticipated so no need to worry.
Yuri is teching Meditation for some reason. Is he going after Philo? cause there's no other reason to tech Meditation right? Good news I guess, although Meditation is hardly expensive enough to be called a detour.
When I logged in to check whether Yuri decided to go for Philosophy (good news:; he did), it prompted me to make a build in, uh, Rotini, I think. I set it to Chichen Itza and put a few signs there.
One other thing that I noticed: slow is now Buddhist. Interesting...
Edit: I didn't really look around the game, though, so if you want me to do so, to see if I can do an efficiency check, I can, but I trust that you have a handle on the situation enough to not do so unless you request one, especially since you mentioned that you've got some complicated war prep plans.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
![[Image: T137%20OB%20Shenanigans.jpg]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15873301/Pitboss%2012/T137%20OB%20Shenanigans.jpg)