American Politics Discussion Thread

[Charr Babies]

They have reinforced their want for reunification very recently. Also, as the years have went on.. Taiwanese people have shifted towards not wanting reunification. It will only grow with time.

That's not our business. We have no right to meddle in other nations civil war. But then again We need to unstabilize the world around for our own gain...

[Charr Babies]

You mean that having watched what happened to Hong Kong since 99, they haven't been convinced of the overwhelming liberty China offers to its territories ?

What happened?

I mean I've been convinced you are just a troll for a while, but seriously.

Please tell me your Western version, how the west is involved ...

Oh, You are just a troll, I shouldn't have answered.

I kept saying you don't know shit when it comes to geopolitics. You keep proving me right over and over.. Step outside of your bubble

[Charr Babies]

Seriously. How deluded do you have to be to believe, as an outsider, you know the only truth?

[Mjmd]

I know that arresting political dissidents and curtailing free speech is bad. Why as a country with greater freedoms would Taiwan want to join a country that would take them away? Every election is another chance if they want to, but they don't seem eager thus far.

I know that no one forced any of the NATO countries to join NATO. They could have chosen to keep close ties with Russia. But as literally all the former eastern block that turned into democracies choose NOT to, I think that is a pretty good sign. Also, they can leave if they want to. They could join Russia.

You can root for China and Russia if you want to for whatever reasons you have, but there are pretty clear indicators that the people you are hoping they conquer don't want them.

[superdeath]

They have reinforced their want for reunification very recently. Also, as the years have went on.. Taiwanese people have shifted towards not wanting reunification. It will only grow with time.

That's not our business. We have no right to meddle in other nations civil war. But then again We need to unstabilize the world around for our own gain...

It was a civil war back before ww2, and then for several years afterwords. Now they are by almost every metric, separate countries. The ONLY real reason most countries dont officially say it is/have embassy ect is because China gets bent out of shape because of the "one china policy" or something to that effect.


You spout "western view, Western bias, Bubble" but have you stopped to think that maybe just maybe, what most of the world outside of what china says.... is true? China cant say it doesnt want reunification with Taiwan, because then they will look weak and Taiwan would have a much easier time saying that they are a separate country without China flying jets over them and pulling a north korea and launching rockets nearby.

Our actions HAVE de-stabilized parts of the world. If you want to look at it as a "people that control the government behind closed doors" view, then sure. They do it specifically to do that. I for one believe that anytime it happens its generally because our government was incompetent (when either side has been in power) or the nation/area we were in was pretty volatile to begin with.

[Charr Babies]

I know that arresting political dissidents and curtailing free speech is bad.

I know, not only dissidents, we also assassinate not only heroes such as  Martin Luther King but presidents too - starting from Abraham Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, Kennedy x 2.5 … the list goes on … Barack Obama, Trump, and even Biden.

I know that no one forced any of the NATO countries to join NATO. They could have chosen to keep close ties with Russia. But as literally all the former eastern block that turned into democracies choose NOT to, I think that is a pretty good sign. Also, they can leave if they want to. They could join Russia.

You are a bit confused about country vs state. They have entirely different rights. For example, Hawaii, California or Texas can’t just vote themselves out of the us. There are also differences between a de jure sovereign state and de facto states

You can root for China and Russia if you want to for whatever reasons you have, but there are pretty clear indicators that the people you are hoping they conquer don't want them.

I don’t really root for anyone. I am a free range troll. For example, I wasn’t raving about Tucker or Putin when I posted about their interview. I was laughing at the smear campaign, how we shit our pants over it. I consider Tucker is just another cog in our propaganda machine working for a different master. It did not escape me he tried to seed something between Russia and China but Putin just laughed at him and put him in his place. Neither do I root for Putin. To say we shouldn’t let Putin be heard because he is a liar, we might as well mute trump and biden too. Oh wait, my bad, we did try to mute Trump last election. What’s even more funny is biden on Tik Tok and, drum rolls please, Truth Social!

If I have to rate nations by their honesty, we would be on the bottom of the list. Just as Superdeath keep reminding us we only say Taiwan belongs to China because we want to do business with them.

However, what you and I feel about should or should not has little bearing on the legality of the matter. We pride ourselves as a rules base country, and the rules-base International laws should be the standard.

It was a civil war back before ww2, and then for several years afterwords. Now they are by almost every metric, separate countries.

Don’t argue with me, I didn’t make the rules.

Is “almost” good enough a measure? What metric? Are you talking about the rules-base International laws about what constitute a country?

United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2758
Resolution 2758 is a political document encapsulating the one-China principle whose legal authority leaves no room for doubt and has been acknowledged worldwide. Taiwan does not have any ground, reason, or right to join the UN, or any other international organization whose membership is confined to sovereign states.

US - China Joint Communiqué
In the Joint Communiqué, the United States recognized the Government of the People's Republic of China as the sole legal government of China, acknowledging the Chinese position that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China.

The ONLY real reason most countries dont officially say it is/have embassy ect is because China gets bent out of shape because of the "one china policy" or something to that effect.

Remember we used to play Cowboys And Indian when we were kids? Of course the Indians are the bad guys to be chased down and killed by the cowboys. I also remember in the old Western movies, when the Indians gets the shit end of the stick, they always say, “White man speaks with forked tongue”. I thought that was just in the movies, but it is a actual native proverb. Now you provided further prove that the us can not be trusted.

We really shouldn't’ brag about how untrust worthy and how spineless we are by declaring “There is only one China”, “and Taiwan is part of China” bending to China’s will. Where’s the bravado of US supremacy now?

As the leader of the “free” world, as the self proclaimed police of the world, Should we be making declarations we don’t mean? Are we not at least guilty as an enabler?

You spout "western view, Western bias, Bubble" but have you stopped to think that maybe just maybe, what most of the world outside of what china says.... is true?

Of course. I get the same Western propaganda as you do. I don’t believe everything either side says. The only difference is, I look at clouds from both sides. Most things are not so black and white, right or wrong. It is a matter of perspective.

The best example of the bubble is when I asked "What happened?" in Hong Kong a couple posts up. I was called out as a troll. Instead of lets hear what the other side has to say, from someone who knows a little more on that story. You don't want to hear it because it might challenge your prejudice. You guys decided to stay in your bubble, just as we tried to shut down Tuckers interview.

Our actions HAVE de-stabilized parts of the world. If you want to look at it as a "people that control the government behind closed doors" view, then sure. They do it specifically to do that. I for one believe that anytime it happens its generally because our government was incompetent (when either side has been in power) or the nation/area we were in was pretty volatile to begin with.

I don’t believe it is incompetency. It is how we divide and conquer. That’s how we feed our military-industrial complex.

[Mjmd]

How many presidential assassination conspiracies do you believe?

In any case I feel like a lesson in what tu quo que fallacy is. If the United states does something bad does it mean its ok that other countries do the same or worse? No.

Poland can leave NATO if it wants to. Finland joined NATO willingly. Any of the former eastern block could have chosen to lean towards Russia. Most of them didn't. I have no clue what conspiratorial junk you are trying to equal by bringing up US states leaving the US, but yes NATO countries can do their own thing. When we were assholes and invaded Iraq most of NATO didn't. They don't always vote with us in the UN. They are their own countries that choose to be in NATO instead of being subject to the Kremlin deciding it doesn't like what you are doing and sending in the tanks.

No one mutes Trump. You can very much argue the media gives his every word too much reach. Its actual a serious news problem that he sucks up a lot of the oxygen in the news cycle. You can argue he became president because the news gave him so much free publicity. And I will note you can always find what he says.  This is not true elsewhere in the world. That being said private companies can choose what they show and don't show. See current Twitter; that is their right; it might just have consequences.

Have you ever heard of political fictions designed to prevent tension? There are good reasons to stand up to China's territorial claims. If you let a dictator get away with one what happens next? You can look at Chinese maps and see how much they claim CURRENTLY. Nothing stops them from expanding those claims once they get another one. Happens all the time throughout history.

[greenline]

Trump was muted from social media until Elon Musk decided to reinstate those privileges.

The idea of social media companies being wholly private and separate from government influence is a sham. If you look at the House report on the 'censorship industrial complex', they are frequently in contact with or coerced by the government into serving a particular narrative, which should come as no surprise to anyone.

[Mjmd]

I mean they got sick of him spouting misinformation that was causing their customers to die or to want to overthrow the government. But that was their choice. Just like its Musks choice if he doesn't want anything negative of him or other things he doesn't like now. You can find plenty of examples and I don't hear right wing people crying censorship. If you wanted to see that information you still could / can. I mean I do remember the house report coming up with evidence that the Biden campaign did reach out to keep his sons penis pictures off, but I'll forgive them for that heavy censorship.

[Charr Babies]

How many presidential assassination conspiracies do you believe?

I got the list of assassination (attempts) from Wikipedia. You can easily go and make corrections.

I mean they got sick of him spouting misinformation that was causing their customers to die or to want to overthrow the government. But that was their choice. Just like its Musks choice if he doesn't want anything negative of him or other things he doesn't like now. You can find plenty of examples and I don't hear right wing people crying censorship. If you wanted to see that information you still could / can. I mean I do remember the house report coming up with evidence that the Biden campaign did reach out to keep his sons penis pictures off, but I'll forgive them for that heavy censorship.

Just as your sorry excuses in the rest of your posts. I am sure Russia and China have their sorry excuses too; if you ever let them talk. They don't have the luxury to make excuses here as you do, Legit or not. 

In any case I feel like a lesson in what tu quo que fallacy is. If the United states does something bad does it mean its ok that other countries do the same or worse?

But I thought you were talking about the us by how bad you made it sound. I haven't even listed the class of Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, Aaron Swartz, etc., etc yet.

LoL you always pull this tu quo que fallacy BS to excuse yourself from defending. The thing is, I am not saying these are not bad thing done by any party. As I have commented a couple of posts ago, 

Such hypocrisy. You know, most of your sound bites are not wrong but the problem is your double standards. You deem American expansion in Europe is a good thing and yet we shit our pants and ready to start a nuclear war when Russia wanted to move a few nukes to Cuba. What will we do if Russia and China start building military bases in South America - to encircle the enemy as you so proudly speak of us military bases.

The list is long on your hypocrisy.....

Anything pointing to non american and allies you make it sound like it's the end of the world, the worst atrocity against god all mighty. While, anything on the us you just pull the tu quo que fallacy. I am not excusing whatever you are accusing Russia or China does. I am saying Who The Fuck are we to talk when we are even worse. We don't have the moral high ground. 

That is me pointing out your double standards, your hypocrisy!