[Mjmd #54 no players] Flying Solo

[Mjmd]

First:


Some housekeeping while working on sim. Some of you may have noticed my capital is named Red Alert after what would have been my last city in PB51. The brave Korean people built a portal device zipped through PB52 to pick up a different leader and civ and got plopped here (quick version of the story). In all seriousness I had plenty of names left in that naming theme (games I've played), so decided to run with it.

Map is about 99 tiles per player. We were told 90-100, so on upper end, which is good for my hanging gardens aspirations.

Story: I play team civ games with a friend. He is willing to play literally almost any start. One time we had just started a game and it crashed while he was loading into it (literally only time its happened). Anyways I had glanced at his capital. Normally when a capital is plopped into tundra it terra forms at least the bfc around it. This capital was literally 100% tundra. 2 deer and 1 beaver, but lots of forests. When he said well I can probably still get the initial save and we can play it. I told him, "no I'm not going to let you play that, it was ALL tundra."


PW since I have no ded lurker just in case

It could be worse, it could be :
Tundra

[Mjmd]

Well I at least worked out what I think is best until turn 30. I'm sure copper will change stuff beyond that, so not bothering atm.

People tracking demos: someone is still at 1 pop on turn 30??? Yep its India. With only 1 good tile to work until AH finishes why not. Some nice fun broken India stuff going on in here. Also, only 2 wasted worker turns moving.
2 worker opening
T14: worker pops goes chop forest next to river. Start 2nd worker
T17: agriculture finishes and worker can go farm
T21: complete farm and switch to working
T22: 1st worker to plains hill
T23: start settler, 2nd worker to mine hill 1 turn.
T24: move 2nd worker to forest to chop
T26: 1st worker goes south
T27: 1st worker starts chopping forest under city spot, 2nd worker starts chopping, work sheep for 1 turn!! (literally would be short 1 beaker from AH otherwise)
T28: settler finishes, start warrior
T29: switch to workboat, finish both chops to complete workboat, settle taking AH down to 1 turn (as should get trade routes right away)
T30: revolt to slavery start sheep and deer, tech fishing

Of course slightly weird I'm switching to slavery after I settle second city. I actually did the same thing for the same reason in PB52. Worker improvements and worker efficiency. Means I get to improve the sheep and get it done in time for capital growing to 2 pop.

Edit: really loved figuring out how to efficiency chop the forest from under new city to settle 1 turn earlier, which also bumped AH down! Very happy although I'm sure it could be done better.

[civac2]

Did you run a sim for something more orthodox as comparions?

[Mjmd]

Going agriculture first to farm before chopping, growing to size 2 before completing chops resulted in a T30 settler. Nothing else I ran really came close. The increased hammers on workers definitely slows India down.

[Mjmd]

So I had missed not growing after farming. Farming and then chopping while staying at 1 would have been 1 turn faster. However, since the 1st worker goes E to chop instead of being on farm, the actual turn I would settle the second city is still the same (I still get the chop in, just doesn't change the timing like in mine). I would get 1 more turn to improving grassland mine. HOWEVER, and more importantly the extra turns working the farm means I would be short from beakers to get AH on T30, which actually would slow me down. So I'm still good! And lucky.

[Mjmd]

It slipped past me in the changes that the solution to the problem of scouting slowly was instead to kill off the scouts........

There was 1. 1 black square I couldn't see and it was only turn 11, I figured sure its probably ok. Sigh. Lets hope.



I figured once I got on the hill I could wiggle back and forth between the two sides for a few turns.

[Mjmd]

1st. Question

Free Wins against Barbs: All units that can act as MP get Free Wins against barbs as long as a settler is present in the same tile. Does still reduce your Free Wins towards Barbs

You get free wins against barbs? My scout won (had 21% to win). Was wondering if there is any way to tell if this was a free win? How many free wins do you get? All the questions.

2nd. My opinion of my start is only going down with the revealing of the copper. I had originally skipped scouting south because I figured there was no way there was another food down there. Now I'm wondering if there is 2nd ring food if I settle south of deer and I'm supposed to settle S of copper for the fish. Right now the best spot is to settle on the floodplain.......if I still want the excellent 2nd city spot down there. Does everyone have a crappy copper in awkward spot? He added that river too, which means he added the floodplains I would settle on. Huh.

Do I probably waste time and go scout south of deer in case or just assume I'm settling on the floodplain. Thinking on it, I don't hate that spot. Will be a nice little production city that can grow 2 cottages for the capital. You know I may have been too down on this as I was typing earlier. Mind still not Pancakes level of a copper spot (PB52 reference), but it is better than Leap Frog (PB51 reference).

[Charriu]

1st. Question

Free Wins against Barbs: All units that can act as MP get Free Wins against barbs as long as a settler is present in the same tile. Does still reduce your Free Wins towards Barbs

You get free wins against barbs? My scout won (had 21% to win). Was wondering if there is any way to tell if this was a free win? How many free wins do you get? All the questions.

I think you are playing on monarch difficulty, which doesn't grant any free wins. No there is no way to differentiate a free win from a normal win from in-game. The change above only applies to fights, which have a settler present on the tile. I doubt you had one present. So be happy that you got truly lucky.

[Mjmd]

I'll take lucky every day.

Boring micro update as I had time tonight. I liked what worker 1 was doing. Speeding up both 2nd city and AH by a turn is sweet. Did not like that worker 2 was chopping all the eastern forests, which means that city wouldn't have any. Mind that city needs to build a monument and granary as well. Luckily being India I can just send him N instead. The problem with that is that then the work boat is delayed as I'm only finishing 1 chop (whereas before it was way early). Current plan to compensate is therefore to chop 2 forests at the 2nd city to get a settler out at pop 2!. Also gets the grassland mine done sooner. Here is detailed update through T42. I didn't put in all my builds like warriors, but I'm pretty sure I need to swap one of those for a work boat for eastern cities fish its going to give to elephant city. Will figure out later; its late.

2 worker opening modified
T14: worker pops goes chop forest next to river. Start 2nd worker
T17: agriculture finishes and worker can go farm
T21: complete farm and switch to working
T22: 1st worker to plains hill
T23: start settler, 2nd worker to mine hill 1 turn.
T24: move 2nd worker to forest NE of corn
T26: 1st worker goes south
T27: 1st worker starts chopping forest under city spot, 2nd worker goes to mine grassland  hill for 2 turns, work sheep for 1 turn!! (literally would be short 1 beaker from AH otherwise)
T28: settler finishes, start workboat, switch from sheep to corn
T29: settle taking AH down to 1 turn (as should get trade routes right away), new city starts on work boat for copper city; 2nd worker goes NE of sheep to chop 1 turn
T30: revolt to slavery start improving sheep and deer, tech fishing
T31 set slider to 50%
T32 back to 100%
T33: both improvements finish
T34: 1st worker goes to chop plains hill forest in southern city; 2nd worker does 1 chop forest SE of hill.
T35: 2nd worker goes to mine grassland hill finishing it
T37: start settler in 2nd city, 1st chop finishes; 2nd worker for next little bit is just moving and prechopping up north (I may decide to double chop settler from capital out, but still deciding as those forests could be used on other things)
T38: 1st worker goes to chop grassland forest
T40: start settler red alert;
T41: 2nd city finishes settler, whip red alert; 2nd worker puts 1 turn in roading grassland hill. New settler and southern worker go to copper spot
T42: settler from red alert finishes finishes; settler and worker go to eastern spot

Both settler on turn 43. While my 2nd and 3rd city are slightly slower than PB52, my 4th is way faster. However, 3rd worker is going to be much slower mainly due to capital being at a low pop for so long early (alhtough I'll have more forests leftover). Luckily / unluckily there are a lot of seafood resources. Copper city doesn't get its food until T46, but mind that is still faster than 1 worker farming the wheat. I imagine the next whips from capital and 2nd city are settler and worker. Settler for 5th city is probably T52, which is same turn as PB52. I know I'm throwing out a lot of PB52 references, but its only other time I've played nerfed India, so trying to benchmark. Main difference in this game is it doesn't look like I have a million miles of road to improve to get to my cities. My first 4 cities are all close. 5th could be clam stone which is also close depending, although I may want to throw a city farther towards someone by then.

Lets hope Maya isn't sending Holkans after me! Although honestly chariot rush would probably do me in too. Really glad that scout lived to see who / how far away western neighbor is / barb bust later. Risk it for the biscuit!

[Mjmd]

The beautiful micro. The beautiful economy focused micro. I think I know why people are posting a bunch?

Its a really good thing my scout lived...

That can't be both of our coppers just looking at each other right? RIGHT?!?! I moved onto the forest, following my anti don't die to barb plans, but I probably should have taken the risk and moved onto the copper. That way I could scouted 1 tile closer to make SURE that this connects via land. I can still move 1S of copper and have a descent vision line and dart back so he doesn't know where I came from. I have to decide if I'm teching wheel next turn. I guess worse case / best case ? if it isn't connected via land, but I switch thinking it is, it just delays AH and the pasture by 1 turn.

If I think its connected via land (I mean I think it is), means I'll have an axe going towards him T31; hit  his cap on T37 or T38 depending. I can't imagine his non imperialistic self will be able to settle on his copper plus have the chops ready. Assuming he researches BW and scouts that direction even. I guess the danger would be he settles on a horse and gets some chariots out. Will be very important to not be seen. I can whip an axe or spear from capital T32 depending what I see from him and have roads going that way and that unit could get there around the same time again depending on terrain and if I road with 1 or 2 workers. I'm thinking just 1 atm, which would delay 2nd unit (again if its needed). 

I mean I knew the map was tight, but I figured skinny spokes into contested  blobs would give some distance. Also, our coppers just facing each other guarantee conflict at some point. I might as well go take another capital. Sorry SD! I mean maybe these are the Korean people having gone through a portal finally pulling off the axe rush I had been planning vs him back in PB51 / getting revenge. In all seriousness, I very much would have preferred the map not be this way. If his copper wasn't right there and he was even a smidge further away I would have preferred going full rex mode like I had planned and just settling some hill dry rice spot in his face as city # 5, but his copper being there means we have to have early cities just staring at each other, which doesn't make sense with the power of an India 2 worker opening with chops available staring at me. Taking a 2nd capital will make up for the slower start hopefully. Settling on the copper means that city will be slow, but its actually a good spot once its borders pop.

EDIT: Its actually going to be super dangerous if he builds a warrior and it just goes straight for me. However, if he has a seafood resource or just does a small loop (sees rice and loops ect), I'll be fine. But he could very much delay me settling if he goes straight at me. PLEASE NO ONE GET HIM PARANOID OR ASK HIM ABOUT UNMET NEIGHBORS NEAR HIM ECT ECT. PLEASE LURKERS.