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Financial + elves sounds a bit crazy on paper, on the other hand keeping Raider on those recon units is appealing - Falamar does sound pretty strong for a fast start on a large map, although most of the trait combo apart from the Cha XP boost does vanish if the player decides to use Guardian of Nature, we all know how big a deal the early game is.
have to say this is pretty hard to call as far as who might end up over/underpowered, if in doubt we should lean towards what'd be fun to play.
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uberfish Wrote:Financial + elves sounds a bit crazy on paper, on the other hand keeping Raider on those recon units is appealing - Falamar does sound pretty strong for a fast start on a large map, although most of the trait combo apart from the Cha XP boost does vanish if the player decides to use Guardian of Nature, we all know how big a deal the early game is.
have to say this is pretty hard to call as far as who might end up over/underpowered, if in doubt we should lean towards what'd be fun to play. Tasunke of Svarts? Elven economy should take care of itself while Agg/Raid Svarts would be anything but squishy.
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If we're giving the Svarts Tasunke...why not straight up give them Faeryl back? Arcane's much more useful in the late game, and we are trying to make sure the civs are such that everyone makes it to the late game, aren't we?
My biggest worry about that at the moment is still Grigori axe rushing. But there's probably not a way to deal with that and leave them in the game.
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Mardoc Wrote:If we're giving the Svarts Tasunke...why not straight up give them Faeryl back? Arcane's much more useful in the late game, and we are trying to make sure the civs are such that everyone makes it to the late game, aren't we? Arcane boxes them into teching sorcery. Also it's not Raid that makes them not squishy, it's Agg. Extra first strike chance doesn't help when you get rushed, combat I from the start does, a lot. Going through Agg leaders you get Kandros ( overkill ), Alexis ( taken ), Tasunke, Charadon ( yuck ) and Sheelba ( barbarian ). Agg and Fin ( to accelerate past the early bits ) are probably only way to keep Svarts alive to the late game, and as Uberfish pointed, Fin on elven civ is slightly insane.
Unless I go all out on the map and give everyone 5 cities worth of map infrastructure ( farms, cotages, plantations, mines and whole rest of the lot ). This would also keep people alive through early game by virtue of almost entirely bypassing it.
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Hmm, looking at the list again, it's different than I was remembering. I was going to mention that Amurites are squishy too - but you already gave them Agg. And Kurios, Sheaim, and Grig are all capable of being early-game dangerous. On second thought, I like Tasunke of the Svarts with this list.
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This leaves us with
Faeryl Kurio
Perp Sheaim
Alexis Amurite
Tasunke Svart
Cardith Grig
Beeri Bannor
Can we live with that setup? Or do we scrap it altogether and try to figure something else? 
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Mist Wrote:Can we live with that setup? Or do we scrap it altogether and try to figure something else?
I think it fits the main goal of giving civs that should be pretty decent but been unlucky another chance to shine. Pretty much the only exception is the Grigori, who I'd argue are already doing well in a game.
And, there aren't any civs on the list who I think are obviously better or duds. There's probably still differences, just not anything drastic.
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It is a pretty good list but there are things that stand out:
Faeryl Arc/Rai Kurio
Raider centaurs could be devastating.
Perp Cha/Cre/Arc/Ins Sheaim
Fine - after all who knows what will happen with Perp
Alexis Agg/Org Amurite
Fine - nice early prop in agg and late game org will be useful.
Tasunke Agg/Rai Svart
Agg Raider sinister hunters are actually pretty dangerous. Especially with elven forest movement...
Cardith Exp/Phi/Ada Grig
Fine - there is still a chance that someone will take agg on t75 and rush with axes although I think it is more likely they will take Fin.
Beeri Ind/Fin Bannor
Fine - Bannor need some props and fin is particularly good for them.
It is nice not to see any Spiritual leaders in there.
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Square Leg Wrote:Raider centaurs could be devastating.
Raider centaurs have been demonstrated to be devastating. On the other hand, it's hard to say how much of that romp was raider centaurs, and how much was Cardith Lorda + Pocketbeetle. And for that matter, how much was it being underestimated.
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the only reason I'm not sure about Tasunke is that the combos we shortlisted so far are overall trying to give civs a few more options and directions, and Tasunke is pretty much saying "you're officially a rush civ now". Which sort of points me back towards Falamar/Sabathiel/Alexis again.
As to the previous games, PBEM11 is not really a great baseline because of the highly variant start
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