So, Which Boring Leader And Civ Do We Pick?

[luddite]

Oh and parkin of course. If he doesn't get an IND leader he's going to cry

[Commodore]

Post something about who you think the opposition will be:

[luddite]

Hey, ancient art of war at sea! I remember that game! I had to play it in black and white though.

I predict that all the other teams will pick in order: India, inca, pacal, willem, HC. Except maybe parkin who might pick HC first.

[oledavy]

Except maybe parkin who might pick HC first.

I'll bet you anything Parkin picks an industrious leader.

[kp]

Pirates...a couple of my thoughts...

I am not sure whether we are first in turn order or if we will need to reroll, but nonetheless, if there is a reroll, and our pick order changes, below are my top 5 pick choices for leaders and civ, and reasons for the picks...

Leaders - (Fin speaks for itself, so havent chosen any non fin leaders).

Leader Pick 1:

Willem - I really like the creative trait. Early border expansions are key. The ablility to settle two tiles away from a resource and still be able to use it in 5 turns without the need to build a monument or spread religion is quite nice. Also the ability to win border disputes will be quite handy if there is a close neighbor. Granted the effects wear off later in the game, but by then the trait has well paid for itself. Cheap libraries are also quite nice considering there might be no tech trading in this game.


Leader Pick 2:

Darius - I actually think the ORG trait is pretty nice. Allows us to run a higher science rate, which is key for a no tech trading game. Also, I think half price courthouses are a bit under rated. The ability to build these cheaply and reduce maintenance easier than otherwise could be quite a handy boost to us.

Leader Pick 3:

Elizabeth - Philosophy is another great trait. Ability to pump out more GP could be quite handy in a no tech trading game. Will be able to bulb more techs, and enable more golden ages.

Leader Pick 4:

Pacal - Health boost, and cheap grainaries. Solid choice, but I actually think the other three leaders are better. The city growth limiting factor is usually a happy cap more than a health cap, and there are usually health resources abundant in the map (we have three very close to the capital).

Leader Pick 5:

HC - Being Industrious has some great benefits if we fail to get the above 4. There are some useful wonders that could help in a big way (GLH, Colossus, etc). The Cheap forges are also something that all cities would benefit from.

With Regards to Civ Picks:

Civ Pick 1:

India - Pretty obvious choice given Fast Worker is probably the best UU in the game, and lasts the whole game. The UB (Jail) also adds 2 happy faces, which is not too bad, but does come in late in the game. Unless we plan on doing a lot of warring (which is a possibility) we may not be building this too often.

Civ Pick 2:

Inca - Has the best UB in the game. A grainary will be built in every city, and often the first building. Almost like a mini creative trait. Their UU is also pretty good early on, and can defend well against Barbs until axes come along.

Civ Pick 3:

Ottomans - I think this civ is quite good. Their UU, the Janisary is not bad, considering it is better than all the other units of its time, but we may not be using it much seeing as we will have to build it from scratch (not upgradable), and its more of a defensive unit rather than an offensive unit. But their UB is quite great. An aqueduct which gives +2 happy faces is great. The UB comes at a time when happy cap stops city growth, so the ability to grow all our cities to a +2 pop limit is a nice bonus to have. This civ also starts off with wheel and agriculture - possibly the two of the three best start techs (mining being the other).

Civ Pick 4:

Byzantium - The Cataphract is a pretty nice UU, and the Hippodrome adds ano additional +1. All in all, not a bad civ, if all others above have been taken.

Civ Pic 5:

Not too sure about the 5th Civ. I dont think we need to make this choice as by this time we would have either picked our Civ, or would have a better choice. Pick 5 would assume we went with Pick one for leader (which we wouldnt do as we would choose India with our first pick, and pick a leader with pick 5).

Anyway, just wanted to pen my thoughts...would be interested in what the others think...

KP...

[Shoot the Moon]

My thoughts on picks:

1. India. Duh.

2. Either Pacal or Willelm (haven't decided)--Pacal is obvious. Willelm I think is actually really strong with this start. Early library means early academy, and that start just screams cottaged, early academy to me.

2. The other of Pacal/Willelm

3. Inca. I've never been a huge fan of inca (border pops aren't that hard to get, and Inca starts with Myst)

4. HC

5. Figure it out then as we get to pair civ and leader for sure.

@kp: I think you rate ORG much, much too high for a game set on prince. In addition to this game only being set at prince (right? Someone correct me if I have that wrong) org also comes in really really late. It does nothing to help you until at least CoL, which means the start and expansion phase is really hurt if you go Fin/Org because you have nothing like exp, cre, FWs etc. helping it at all.

[kp]

My thoughts on picks:

3. Inca. I've never been a huge fan of inca (border pops aren't that hard to get, and Inca starts with Myst)

4. HC

@kp: I think you rate ORG much, much too high for a game set on prince. In addition to this game only being set at prince (right? Someone correct me if I have that wrong) org also comes in really really late. It does nothing to help you until at least CoL, which means the start and expansion phase is really hurt if you go Fin/Org because you have nothing like exp, cre, FWs etc. helping it at all.

I forogt about the Prince Setting...i agree that with prince Org does become less of an attraction considering maintenance wont be that bad...Darius does reduce in strength at this level.

Any thoughts on Elizabeth vs HC? Are cheaper wonders better than more GPs ?

With regards to Inca, i think border props are not that easy in early game if you dont have a creative civ...if India and Willem are taken out with picks 1 and 2 and we land pick 3, Inca is a strong pick.

At any rate, I dont think there will be that much disparity between the best and worst teams in terms of civs/leaders, considering there are only 5 teams. Going first in this game will be the key.

[pindicator]

Well, it is toroid and prince, so maintenance will be noticable. I would actually rate Org as a decent choice here because it will also help coastal cities to get online faster thanks to the cheap lighthouses. Not saying i would take Darius over HC or Pacal, but i would take a long look at him after that.

[oledavy]

Well, it is toroid and prince, so maintenance will be noticable. I would actually rate Org as a decent choice here because it will also help coastal cities to get online faster thanks to the cheap lighthouses. Not saying i would take Darius over HC or Pacal, but i would take a long look at him after that.

QFT.

It's hard to know what we might end up with since we don't know our position in the pick order yet. I'm thinking we go:

India
Inca
Pacal
Huyana Capac
Darius

On the whole IND vs. PHI debate, I'd probably go with IND. I'm a bit of a PHI fanboy, and I'm sure we could leverage it to good effect. I'd just rather have a 'faux' expansion trait, that additionally gives us a good shot at the GLH, rather than the two mid-game economic traits we'd get as Lizzie.

[waterbat]

im playing pbem37 on torroid/prince and i've been quite surprised at how quickly im down to 60% breakeven research - just 3 cities in

How does ORG fair in the early game once you get 2-3 cities - does it make any dent?