[Spoilers] Gavagai, Bacchus and Elizabeth Form a Romantic Trio

[Gavagai]

Basically, without fishing we are wasting an advantage of settling on banana and of quick early research via working coast tiles. We are going to get our first worker very fast but he would have nothing to do for several turns as BW wouldn't be researched in time. With fishing we will be able to time our first worker to BW by swapping a citizen from clam to hill.
Settler will be chopped/whipped from 4-size capital afer 3 WBs and probably a warrior. The question I haven't really answered yet is whether we should go worker - worker - WB or worker - WB - worker. Need to do a few more tests to understand that.
Also I realized that Spain is exactly as good for Oracle as any fishing/mining civ. And also as good HC of Carthage, a scary combo which Sian took. But he is also Industrous and will need less forests. This means that we are not going for Oracle. This means that Spain is out.
On a positive note - only one player is left to choose before us and only Carthage is taken from fishing/mining civs. Which means we will take England -> Rome.

[Bacchus]

Basically, without fishing we are wasting an advantage of settling on banana and of quick early research via working coast tiles. We are going to get our first worker very fast but he would have nothing to do for several turns as BW wouldn't be researched in time.

This is why I thought about Mali — with them the worker can build a road before BW (but I can't remember just off-hand whether 2 turns would be enough for BW to get researched).

And also as good HC of Carthage, a scary combo which Sian took. But he is also Industrous and will need less forests. This means that we are not going for Oracle. This means that Spain is out.

I was going to say that out of 10 people surely someone has marble, and surely that someone would pick a mysticism civ.

[Bacchus]

Just checked the sign-up thread, people sure like organized. HC of Carthage is not much of a combo, compared to Pericles of Egypt and Darius of Sumeria, these are both powerhouses. Izzy of China is just super-solid and they will have plenty of RB-logs to draw on for consultation IIRC.

EDIT: At this rate we might end up playing against Sury of India. Of course, he'll be our neighbour.

[Gavagai]

Our worker is faster than in a standard setup due to a banana. I think there were like five turns wasted.
HC of Carthage will be able to get a religion, Oracle, Pyramids (via engineer from forge), a shrine and Colossus without much effort. All he needs is a good second city fast and enough forests and food to chop/whip Oracle and forge. I would rank this kind of start above Pericles of Egypt, though, yes, lower than Serdoa's combo.
(Of course, it has a drawback in sacrificing early expansion massively. In spite of that, I thought that this kind of opening could be an option for us until I saw that someone took HC of Carthage.)

[Gavagai]

At this rate we might end up playing against Sury of India. Of course, he'll be our neighbour.

India is banned.

[Bacchus]

HC of Carthage will be able to get a religion, Oracle, Pyramids (via engineer from forge), a shrine and Colossus without much effort. All he needs is a good second city fast and enough forests and food to chop/whip Oracle and forge. I would rank this kind of start above Pericles of Egypt, though, yes, lower than Serdoa's combo.
(Of course, it has a drawback in sacrificing early expansion massively. In spite of that, I thought that this kind of opening can be an option for us until I saw that someone took HC of Carthage.)

This is a great "if everything goes right" start, but the Mids could easily fall earlier to someone stone-boosted, and without the Mids this is just a good start, as one would expect for snake-picked civ on a balanced map. It also depends on relative isolation and not starting next to some exciting early-UU civ like Egypt. High-risk, high-return, I'd say. Pericles of Egypt is much more stable, but still with plenty of upside. I wouldn't call on which is stronger.

India is banned.

Yeah, it will be a while before I commit all the terms and conditions to memory. But hopefully before the game starts.

[Gavagai]

Probability that Pyramids would fall to anyone but Sian before T100 is low, I think. They are really expansive without stone+ind and can only be prioritized in a desperate attempt to dig yourself out of a hole. Provided you have a good land, rexing is always better. And everyone is guaranteed decent land as I understand.

Edit: and it looks like everyone is aimed to being peaceful at start. Think of that, Rome isn't taken yet!
Actually, before I saw the start, I had an idea to take Montezuma of Rome and to play a game to entertain lurkers. But our start is too good to waste it on a trollgame. May that was what all others thought.

[Bacchus]

Well, remembering CFCJester's bid for the GLH in PB10, and given that they went for a strongly wonderwhoring combo here, I wouldn't put it past them to go for the Mids if they fail Oracle, as they are all but bound to do to HC of Carthage. I'd think they have either stone or marble, too.

They will be running priests off Obelisk's anyway, and grow prophets to settle, so the Mids will have quite an immediate pay-off. And I just don't see that team going: "hey, we failed Oracle, let's REX".

[Gavagai]

What exactly makes Pericles of Egypt particulary good for wonderwhoring?

EDIT: and it was PB8

[Bacchus]

It's not particulary good for wonderwhoring, but the combo shines if you wonderwhore. Obelisks get boosted by Mids, phi makes wonders that bit more valuable, you get easy access to theology, which makes it reasonable to build the AP, even without the resolutions, etc, etc. It's possible to play this leader-civ differently, of course, especially in MP, but I'd be willing to bet against very short odds, that CFCJester will not be using the slightly less obvious aggressive REX potential that Pericles of Egypt presents. Nor should he, he wouldn't be at all comfortable in that role.

8, yeah. These things spawn like rabbits.