WW24: The Ashes of Brigdarrow: VILLAGE WINS

[slowcheetah]

I don't have much beef with Ichabod as it stands. I wanted to hear more from him, and I did. His ploy about laying low and watching to see where the Mattimeo votes fell is in line with his WW20 town play. His lone crusades against targets that aren't going to drop that day (Slowcheetah, Zakalwe) is also not particularly scummy. If he is scum, he's not at much risk of tipping a mislynch at the moment.

[/quote]

Obviously his partner isn't Ichabod, but this little snippet interested me. Why do you assume that's the only way scum can play? Setting it up so you can claim innocence if a silent scum partner doesn't fall by your hand?

[slowcheetah]

[quote='Gazglum' pid='376216' dateline='1369716688']

I don't have much beef with Ichabod as it stands. I wanted to hear more from him, and I did. His ploy about laying low and watching to see where the Mattimeo votes fell is in line with his WW20 town play. His lone crusades against targets that aren't going to drop that day (Slowcheetah, Zakalwe) is also not particularly scummy. If he is scum, he's not at much risk of tipping a mislynch at the moment.

Obviously his partner isn't Ichabod, but this little snippet interested me. Why do you assume that's the only way scum can play? Setting it up so you can claim innocence if a silent scum partner doesn't fall by your hand?

PREVIEW post

[slowcheetah]

I looked at the case for Azza, and I actually quite like it. The case mainly revolved around Azza making safe calls and generally staying out of the limelight. His defence was partially based on his abrupt posting style and also he listed this:

I'm backing Mattimeo as town, that's not a safe call at all.

That is an absolutely terrible line of defence. Mattimeo has posted so little that hes basically a 50/50 coinflip scum to innocent. That has to be a lie of a town read.

Azza

[Azza]

Lynching Zak would IMO probably clear Rowain.

This is a very, very, very suspicious quote.

Why would it clear Rowain by lynching Zak? No mention of how he might flip, or how it might work out if we lynched Rowain, just flat out saying "Lynch Zak, it'll clear Rowain".


I'm watching you slowcheetah.

[Azza]

I looked at the case for Azza, and I actually quite like it. The case mainly revolved around Azza making safe calls and generally staying out of the limelight. His defence was partially based on his abrupt posting style and also he listed this:

I'm backing Mattimeo as town, that's not a safe call at all.

That is an absolutely terrible line of defence. Mattimeo has posted so little that hes basically a 50/50 coinflip scum to innocent. That has to be a lie of a town read.

Azza

I disagree. Mattimeo has posted his standard townie meta-fueled posts. If he were scum, I'd expect him to have tripped up by now, he usually outs himself pretty quickly.

[Mattimeo]

I looked at the case for Azza, and I actually quite like it. The case mainly revolved around Azza making safe calls and generally staying out of the limelight. His defence was partially based on his abrupt posting style and also he listed this:

I'm backing Mattimeo as town, that's not a safe call at all.

That is an absolutely terrible line of defence. Mattimeo has posted so little that hes basically a 50/50 coinflip scum to innocent. That has to be a lie of a town read.

Azza

Any particular reason you're singling out the easiest to lynch target of the 3-4 people who've said something along the lines of me being likely town based on my play?

Mattimeo, I think I see why you are voting for Jkaen, but you haven't actually articulated your case very well. Perhaps you should spell it out for him (and us).

I did summarise a general dislike of his play yesterday, but a good deal of suspicion comes from an assumption that Serdoa was behind the novice kill on N1. Suddenly, Jkaens immediately Doctor paranoia started to make (any amount of) sense.

[Gazglum]

Pacific shift coming online. I'll run quickly through the last few pages, and post some thoughts.

I don't have much beef with Ichabod as it stands. I wanted to hear more from him, and I did. His ploy about laying low and watching to see where the Mattimeo votes fell is in line with his WW20 town play. His lone crusades against targets that aren't going to drop that day (Slowcheetah, Zakalwe) is also not particularly scummy. If he is scum, he's not at much risk of tipping a mislynch at the moment.

Obviously his partner isn't Ichabod, but this little snippet interested me. Why do you assume that's the only way scum can play? Setting it up so you can claim innocence if a silent scum partner doesn't fall by your hand?

I guess it's not the only way scum could play. Ichabod might have wanted to mimic his village persona, which might mean lone crusades. I can believe that one scum player might do that, to get in deep cover. But only one, the rest of the scum really have to try and get mislynches. Scum are not going to find it easy to be as towny as town players, so their game plan has to be setting up mislynches. Especially on a day when the village was spread, like yesterday, charging after Zak didn't make sense to me as a scum play. And if it WAS a scum play, it still made him less immediately dangerous that a player who was trying to tip the balance.

I don't entirely get your second point, but no, I wasn't trying to set up my innocence.



@ MATTIMEO

You were on around lynch, and it became clear that Jkaen was not in the running to hang. I know you said that you weren't feeling the other cases, but your vote would still have swung things. And you had voiced suspicion of Azza before, poking him all through Day 1, voting him early Day 1, and even in Day 2.

Azza's play in D1 still rings false

But then there was Brick/Gaz big attack against Azza, Azza defence, but he is now a candidate for the lynch after Brick. But now you step off him, because

YOU

Azza dealing with the fallout of his misfired joke still niggles at me. I'm not sure that knowing novice wasn't a willing stooge feeding him lines mitigates the fact that no explanation was forthcoming until someone did provide a reasoning for him.

ZAK

This isn't entirely accurate. Novice did not provide a reasoning for Azza. He just asked him specifically about the self-vote, and Azza then replied. So yes, it took some prodding before the answer was forthcoming, but nobody provided the reasoning for him.

This doesn't quite feel right to me. Not that you can't change your mind, but if Azza was one of your top suspects before, surely it would be at least worth chiming on the actual case against him? Either to say, "not sure about Azza, but would rather see him hang than Brick" or to say "good defence from Azza, X point has convinced me he's probably not scum" or something.

Was Azza a scum-buddy getting too close to the gallows? Or did you not want dirty hands from a mislynch?

It particularly interests me, because it looked like if Azza didn't hang, then it was going to be Brick. Nobody predicted the Serdoa switch. So your relative feelings for Azza an Brick come into play, and all you have said about Brick this game is,

# 110: You defend Brick's probing of Azza
# 241 "BRick's instant switch really does seem out of character for him. The long silence after doesn't exactly help his case, either, though I can see it as an understandable reaction for either scum or frustrated town."

You certainyl didn't give Brick a free pass, but I feel like this is much less suspicion than you showed to Azza.

What do you think of the case of Azza? Not good enough to back up your earlier suspicions?

How do you feel about the rest of us now?

[Gazglum]

Well, I unvoted Brick because emotional defenses hit me and make me not want to vote for people.

I was sure Mattimeo would receive votes in sucession if he was village. It seemed like the perfect frame job. That didn't happen, so he may indeed be scum.

I also like this point from Ichabod. Given how spread the village was, Mattimeo would seem a good mislynch target. When Serdoa put the first vote on him, the spread was this (based mainly on Zak's #276 count).

Tally:

Mattimeo (1) - Serdoa
Gazglum (2) - Azza, Rowain,
Ichabod (2) - Slowcheetah, Gazglum
Rowain (2) - Jkaen, Zakalwe
Jkaen (1) - Mattimeo
Brick (1) - Lewwyn
Lewwyn (1) - Ichabod

Not voting (1) - Brick

We know Serdoa wasn't a wolf. I agree that at this point it would have been pretty easy for scum to swing onto Mattimeo. One scum would have made him equal first with momentum. The day was getting closish to end, some people were going to go to bed. Only Zak joined as I recall, and not imeddiately, and only briefly before hopping off. Given Mattimeo's play up till now, it seems a missed opportunity to get a wagon on him.

Anyway, I'm not pretending this is BIG EVIDENCE, but I thought it was worth keeping in mind.

[Gazglum]

I disagree. Mattimeo has posted his standard townie meta-fueled posts. If he were scum, I'd expect him to have tripped up by now, he usually outs himself pretty quickly.

I don't like this either. Last time, Scum Mattimeo outed himself embarressingly quickly. Matt's a good WW player, he's not going to do that again. If he rolled scum again, he would go back to his 'standard' meta persona with a vengeance.

Not that Mattimeo being Mattimeo is, in itself, a scum tell. But I don't think you can argue it's a town tell because it's 'not his scum game', given how disastrously his last scum game went. (no offence Mattimeo! I know it wasn't all your fault last time.)

[Azza]

I disagree. Mattimeo has posted his standard townie meta-fueled posts. If he were scum, I'd expect him to have tripped up by now, he usually outs himself pretty quickly.

I don't like this either. Last time, Scum Mattimeo outed himself embarressingly quickly. Matt's a good WW player, he's not going to do that again. If he rolled scum again, he would go back to his 'standard' meta persona with a vengeance.

Not that Mattimeo being Mattimeo is, in itself, a scum tell. But I don't think you can argue it's a town tell because it's 'not his scum game', given how disastrously his last scum game went. (no offence Mattimeo! I know it wasn't all your fault last time.)

He still feels townish to me. He doesn't appear to be trying too hard which he typically does as scum. Not saying he should be declared unlynchably town, but there's no shortage of better lynch candidates IMO.