RBP3 [SPOILERS] - Zara of the Ottomans

[WarriorKnight]

And let the fun and games begin:

Hi Ottaman Allies,

We'd sure be greatful as allies if you gift us Iron Working, it sure would speed up our progress on MC.

Looking forward to repaying the favor.

KM
ANG-FR

Proposed Response:

Hi France

We understand your desire for IW but we have to remember that every time we trade techs, CANT gets a research bonus on these important techs. The CAN members that have IW have it since they need it for military purposes or have already provided techs. Not every CAN member received IW this turn so we aren't just leaving you guys out. You will, of course, get IW the turn the MC is discovered.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

And a message to DIM:

DIM

Actually, we have revised the plan and we will found the gold city on T76. When do you plan to have the border site founded?

We can have a chariot at the border site by T75. If you can't found the city by then, we could fogbust or head towards your cities or something like that.

You mentioned that we could pick up the worker at T75 near your horse city. Is there any chance that you could have a worker closer to our gold city? If not then we don't see how we can pick up the worker from down there unless we use our chariot. What are your thoughts on this?

Just so it's in writing, we won't trade IW to you guys until next turn when you get HBR to help mislead France.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

[Sockboy]

Turn 72 In:

I've played most of the city micro, we need to build research in Zingara for a turn to get the chop overflow to head into the settler there to start next turn. The Hammam was whipped this turn for 2 pop in the capital but the food overflow will grow it back to size 4 next turn (and the previous whip unhappyness will wear off just in time!).

The biggest problem (other than our economy ) is the barb warrior which has spawned over near the pigs site. I moved Livia over to start fogbusting, but didn't think far enough ahead. The tile she's on is the one tile which CAN'T cover the workers A and C next turn. The only way I can see to cover them is to send the warrior guarding the capital to the forest to be roaded (next turn since he can't move out this turn due to unhappyness) We can cover the capital with the axe or the warrior who are in Zingara at the moment. I think we should do this anyway, but in any case our options as I see them are...

a) Risk two workers in a warrior v warrior(in forest) defence and continue HG plan.
b) Delay HG for a turn
c) Get HG on schedule with 5 cities only (and get a library in place of the settler in Zingara).



This may be moot if the warrior moves away from the forest in question, but we should be prepared for the most likely scenario. I'm really sorry I stuffed this up guys

[Sockboy]

Other stuff I forgot to mention as I wallowed in self-loathing...

We've got HBR now and DIM have IW, should probably send them an email with thanks (and ask them what their plans for the future (research/development) are).

Yaz is out of the game! Looks like the DJs took him out, they've posted a message to that effect in the Technical Issues thread.

I've also moved our chariot down south into Carthage territory, we're on a road so I think we should be able to get trade routes in a couple of turns. Do we need to unfog both sides of each river tile or just one? If it's just one I think we can unfog the remaining river tiles next turn.



This image is before I moved the chariot SW/SW (I've tried to superimpose it on Ruff's maps). It's at the first coloured square, I think we were best off getting onto their roads ASAP. If we move up to the tile NW of the rice then we should uncover the river all the way from the peaks to the lake and the road from the lake to their city Lakewood.

If that doesn't work then maybe we need to uncover the tile to the NW of Lakewood? Or both sides of the peaks? either way it'll take quite a few more turns. But I think it won't be necessary and we should be able to heal up n Lakewood for a few turns. Also do we need to send them a message about us being in their territory? Probably best to be polite about it.

[WarriorKnight]

...but in any case our options as I see them are...

a) Risk two workers in a warrior v warrior(in forest) defence and continue HG plan.
b) Delay HG for a turn
c) Get HG on schedule with 5 cities only (and get a library in place of the settler in Zingara).

This may be moot if the warrior moves away from the forest in question, but we should be prepared for the most likely scenario. I'm really sorry I stuffed this up guys

Personally, I'm leaning towards B, then A then C. Combat odds for plan A are 90% for us but I don't want to risk 2 workers.

We've got HBR now and DIM have IW, should probably send them an email with thanks (and ask them what their plans for the future (research/development) are).

Sounds good, their latest message:

A4,

Unfortunately, we are preparing for war, so won't be able to found the city before T80. We can't get a worker there before that time.
I was going to suggest you position a chariot between Numedia and Singa, allowing our worker to use it as cover. Then the turn after we move the worker into your borders, and you move the chariot in ours.
What do you think?

As always, highest regards,

Ilios - DIM

Their idea sounds good. Problem is that Sancha is probably too far away at T75 by then to help with the swap.

Yaz is out of the game! Looks like the DJs took him out, they've posted a message to that effect in the Technical Issues thread.

Well, looks like India are back in the game but Yaz managed to trade alpha around to the CANT's before dying. Still, I don't see CAN lasting much longer.

I've also moved our chariot down south into Carthage territory, we're on a road so I think we should be able to get trade routes in a couple of turns. Do we need to unfog both sides of each river tile or just one? If it's just one I think we can unfog the remaining river tiles next turn.

I think only 1 side is enough. While testing the 'send copper to Ruff' plan only 1 side was enough and I don't see why not here.

[WarriorKnight]

While messing around in-game I found some interesting stuff:

We are 1st in power. Since we don't have any immediate military threats and unit costs are appearing, I suggest no more military units for the time being (besides, if we do build some, we could lose them to a strike).

While looking at city maintenance costs, the killer ATM is distance maintenance (like it usually is), which Nemedia suffers from the most (at 3E 2SE, it costs 4 gpt!). Gold city (or Brythunia, BTW pig city will be called Ophir) will be equally painful. At 2E 4NE, I guesstimate about 5-6gpt (almost our entire income!). Ophir is only 4NW so it will probably be 3.5. Good thing we will (hopefully) get trade routes with Carthage soon. If/when we get CoL we know what to do.

Finally we are 7th in GNP, which is also the average. No kidding! How that's working, I have no idea. The only explanation I can give is that building research increased our GNP and most other warring teams are even worse than us making gold. Strangely all the other teams we can see on our graphs are better than us ATM but next turn when they get recorded we can see.

[WarriorKnight]

So this just appeared in our mailbox:

Krill/Egypt is kindly forwarding this since we haven't met yet in game - hopefully we'll do so soon! For meeting coordination, we currently have a scouting unit south of the Carthage/England borderlands and another along the southeast borders of Egypt.

So, you may have noticed that we made peace with India. We're actually on pretty good terms with them for a couple of civs who've been at war almost since meeting. Thanks in part to their new land acquisitions in Sumeria, we're also teching a lot better than them though, so we've worked out a deal whereby we'll take over researching Metal Casting to get the ETA down to something you'll probably find a lot more attractive, while they work on an alternative (most likely in the direction of Aesthetics+Lit). We'll of course want to make the same kinds of deals with you that you've got with them - trading the fruits of our research for yours and establishing a NAP (including forbidding us to attack each other at second hand via gifted units, etc.)
That's the general outline. We can talk specifics when we both have time (it's after 1AM for me right now) either by e-mail or via google chat. If you're interested in setting up other deals and plans as well, let us know; we're always open to creative suggestions.
-Ref Eriksson for the Friendly Kittens (Ragnar of Maya)

[WarriorKnight]

Well, don't things change quickly:

Despite Maya's message, it seems that CANT might be doing fine (and therefore, we are tech wise). I talked a bit to Portugal about their situation and they forwarded this that they got from Babylon (dated about T63-64):

From: T J <teamsssrbp3@gmail.com>

Date: Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 10:48 AM
Subject: Gearing for War
To: Tech Peddle, Friendly Kittens, The JANK Team, RB Pitboss3



Please forward to Babylon and Mali.

Dear Heracles,

I know we, the SsS, have not made our voices heard a lot up until now. We have simply lacked the necessary contacts to send around messages without causing too much of a strain on the foreign departments of the free nation of Tech and the brave fighting nation of JANK. The time has now come, however, when we share with all of you the details of what we know and how we view the situation going forward.

First of all I would like to publicly announce what most if not all of you already know; that the SsS Empire will soon be gearing for war. Our researchers have been hard at work and Iron Working is now due to be discovered on turn 68. A settler, designated for Iron, will complete on the same turn. We have a Saxeman ready (yes, that's how it's spelled!) to act as escort and another one, that we had to delay slightly to time the settler properly, will be ready on turn 69. We currently do not have a Saxeman heading for Tech, as we believe hooking up Iron is of outmost importance to the cause of Heracles at this point and escorting the settler therefore takes priority. It should, however, only be a short matter of time before one is dispatched unless peace is obtained on that front.

In two turns SsS will enter into production mode. Our cities are prepared with granaries and barracks, whatever forests remain within our borders will be harvested and we are ready to apply the whip as needed. Soon SsS Spraetorians will be ready to fight the battle against the Hydra. A battle that will be brought upon the nation of Cath Bruig (Portugal), who will have to take the punishment for the abomination that they and their allies foolishly have created. I believe that peace with DJ (India) will only serve our cause as it lets the northern chariots and whatever offensive units Tech might produce to help SsS in our struggle, just as much as it leaves the door open for a Spraetorian detour into DJ territory.

We are currently hard at work trying to ensure a trade with JANK, where their spare units from the Aztec campaign is allowed to be recruited under the SsS banner. We envision an army so large and powerful that not even the aid of their allies will give Cath Bruig any hope of survival. An army, that once its initial mission is complete, is so sturdy that it can still devastate DJ and even the numbers while grinding one of the Hydra's ringleaders into the dust. But I am getting ahead of myself here, so lets move on to other matters.

If Cath Bruig did indeed whip a pair of chariots, they can cause some trouble over here as well, not just at the Tech border. With no current access to Spearmen we could be in some serious trouble getting hold of Iron in case they decide to harrass our escort with those chariots. Not to mention the risk of an invasion, though we can probably handle that without too much effort. I just wanted to make you all aware of that fact.

Lastly, I believe it makes sense to update you on SsS' diplomatic position. The Hydra have not given up on trying to recruit us, so we are playing along as best as we can now that Operation Tuesday 65 has been discontinued, though we are not sure to what degree they still view us as potentially neutral. France, HRE, and India have simply stopped talking to us without any prior statement, so we are only communicating with Cath Bruig at this time. I am as of recently trying to make the Hydra believe that SsS is preparing hard-on to get DJ killed so that they will be less prepared for an assault on Cath Bruig, but I can only guess whether I will be successful or not in that regard.

May the mighty S protect you all.

Regards,
Sandover
Team SsS

So it's CAN/CANT and Heracles/Hydra.

In other Rome news, Ruff's talk with Rome was about their copper city. They had nothing to deal with chariot's (no hunting then, although they do now, see IT thread) so possibly pillaging their copper could have been bad.

More diplo in next post...

[WarriorKnight]

DIM's idea is probably the best way to go re:the worker exchange. Only problem is that we can't get Sancha down there until T76. They probably won't mind (it is an extra worker turn after all) but I think it's the best way to go.

Sent to DIM:

DIM

That's ok, we understand we you can't found the city by then. War does delay stuff like that.

Your idea re:the exchange sounds good, however we'll have to delay the worker deal for 1 turn since our chariot won't be able to get to either staging tile by then (The one 2W or the one 2W1N of your nearby sheep tile). Since we can get to both tiles the same turn, which one would you prefer?

Many thanks for HBR. We hope that IW is useful to you guys. What will you be heading for next?

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

To Carthage:

Nice Shot

Many thanks on maths tech. We hope that our IW made you guys just as happy as we are.

What do you guys think you'll be going for next?

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

Hopefully they respond positively and can give us the tech (probably currency since that's needed ASAP). Don't know what we could send in return (military?) but let's just wait for their response.

DJ:

Hi

Nice to keep talking with you. It's been a bit busy here as well. Diplo with this many teams is indeed crazy.

Congrats on killing Exploit (Yaz didn't really stay long enough to do much). I must say, we weren't expecting you to do anything like that this quickly. I guess that's what happens when you face India.

Yes, it is sad that the game depends on who contacts all the other civs first and forming tech blocks, but that's just how it goes. Your idea re:AW sounds interesting and might happen depending on how this game goes (if we all get annoyed of blocks, then it could work).

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

Well DJ aren't saying much useful, so why should we?

Finally Ruff:

Hi Ruff

How's the game going for you? Are you getting your game back on track after defending against the vile Inca? It must suck that you are behind now since they rushed you but at least they have been hurt the same way.

Anyway, how's Belit doing? Is he still killing barbs like he killed Incan axes? How close do you think he is to Portugal? (of course you have your map, so you might not have to guess)

Re: your incident with Rome, Portugal have the Rome problem ATM. They thank you for the info and have also asked me to pass to onto you that your warrior was near their copper city. Since Portugal has plans on chariot rushing them, they might have freaked out or something, hence your experience. They have asked me to forward an intercepted message to you from Rome to CANT, which you might be interested in.

Look forward to your response.

Enough Talking!
WarriorKnight of A4

Also sent the CANT message since Portugal haven't met him yet.

[Sockboy]

Hmm... Sounds like there is going to be a reload. Is there any chance we can use that to change what was essentially a misclick ? My gut feeling is no, but was wondering if anyone else had thoughts on the subject, we wouldn't be directly affecting any other teams by doing so. Any lurkers care to chime in on this one?

Otherwise I guess we're stuck with what happened.

Diplowise, what's the deal with the Mayans? Are they in the CAN? I didn't think so. Is this a request to join up, or something else... Colour me confused on this one. Portugal sound like they're in for a scrap, presumably DIM is gearing up for a pincer attack on them. I think all the warring means everyone has been busy chopping and not building cottages (like us ). There's probably a handful of teching civs (the ones we've met and Exploit perhaps?) and eveyone else is on axes and spears and chariots, oh my!

I think we're still too far away to affect any CANT members other than Inca and we've got a NAP with them til t100, so yeah... agree on no more military for the next few turns and more cottages everywhere. Maybe we can set the capital on build research for a bit once we know where we're meant to be teching to (and have some cash reserves...). A stables would be good to slip in there too.

Oh one thing that is helping our stats in the demogs screens is the free culture from each city, that's an extra 8gpt right there as I understand it, so maybe we're doing a bit worse than average? Anyway we should have time to recover, particularly if we can get Currency in soon.

I must have missed an email about the worker swap, I'll hunt it up. But, we certainly don't want it any later than t76. It may be that between our two civs we fogbust all the squares in the region anyway? If so there's no need for an escort right? Anyway let me look again.

[WarriorKnight]

Hmm... Sounds like there is going to be a reload. Is there any chance we can use that to change what was essentially a misclick ? My gut feeling is no, but was wondering if anyone else had thoughts on the subject, we wouldn't be directly affecting any other teams by doing so. Any lurkers care to chime in on this one?

Otherwise I guess we're stuck with what happened.

I dunno about this one and have no idea how to answer it. A lurker's imput would be appreciated.

Anyway, jackpot!

Hi All,

Please forward to others in CAN that I don't know yet.

HRE filled me in on the tech position ...

Babylon - Currency
Mali - Calendar
Maya - Metal Casting
India - Aesthetics
England - Monarchy
Carthage - Construction
HRE - Code of Laws
Krill - unknown
Ottomans - undecided
Aztec - saving coin
Portugal - saving coin?

As you know, I was stifled a little due to the Inca incursion. However, I should have my civ back up and running pretty well shortly. As such, I would like to contribute TECH to CAN.

I want to put down a place holder for Literature. Be sure to have your level 4 unit ready for when I can trade it. I'll give you an ETA at a later date.

Ruff

OK, we need to meet Babylon/Mali ASAP. England have talked to me about coordinating a meeting between the 2 of us and I said that the only unit nearby is our chariot in Carthage. After he finishes defogging trade routes, he should head S to Maya, then go E to Mali then Babylon.

Given that most of the techs above are chosen, that leaves us with the huge choice of compass or theology. Krill might head onto theology since he's religion happy so we are left with compass. I think it might be worthwhile since it isn't an important tech yet and it just seems that we were late to decide what we want (when actually we choose it since no-one would want it enough for a ETA).

From DIM:

A4

While it doesn't really matter where the worker and chariot meet, I suppose it's best if we agree to a tile so our worker doesn't find himself eating by barbs...
Let's meet on the tile 2W, 1N of the Singa sheep tile.

We will be saving some gold for a couple of turns, and will probably head for Code of Laws after that.

Regards,

Ilios - DIM

Basically confirming what Ruff said.

and another from Ruff:

A4,

Here is my proposed movement plan for Belit (http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3612/rbpb30034.jpg). Let me know if you are ok with that.

Ruff

His plan is ok, but he's heading south to our lands then going a roundabout way to korea. I guess it's fine since we don't need any more military ATM and he needs to meet Carthage.