The barb city will probably have to wait until maces, and even then it's risky. So as long as we push back the barb city's borders so we can get those tiles chopped and farmed, it's alright. My concern is that those tiles have been getting the inner cultural ring bonus for the last 100 turns or so, which would mean they've got ~21 x 100 culture points on them, making them ridiculously difficult to dislodge.
Just 2 forts on a diagonal should be enough. While we can build a city on the innermost ring 2 tiles away from Harappan, it won't be able to build galleys, so any coastal cities should be on the outer edge of Centralia.
Finally, it may be good to stockpile some gold, just on the off chance that settling all those cities will tank you to 0% science.
I'm pretty sure cities on a 1 tile island will never expand borders beyond level two(21 tiles), even if they made it to legendary.
I posted a close up a few turns back and didn't see any culture buildings and the water tiles that were fogged then are now visibly empty. The city's culture must have been worldbuildered in.
I'm not sure whether we should stockpile much gold. We need Calendar to make these cities profitable. If we have to, we can delay founding some of them, build wealth, or run merchants.
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FFH-20: Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers
EITB Pitboss 1: Clan/Elohim/Calabim with Mardoc and Thoth
Quote:Ellimist: playing the turn now NobleHelium: k cool Ellimist: we founded Vega this turn, and I attached another map NobleHelium: your galley dropped a unit off?
gems eh Ellimist: of course NobleHelium: so
I see that settler over there
north of the gems Ellimist: yeah NobleHelium: are you going to tell me you're going to plant there next turn Ellimist: probably not next turn NobleHelium: so turn after next then Ellimist: maybe the turn after
depends on the maintenance hit from the rest Ellimist: we're settling the other side of the island and sticking to our agreement NobleHelium: sure, you're sticking to the letter of the agreement
I don't think anyone would say you're sticking to the spirit of the agreement Ellimist: how's that?
we're settling both sides of the island, west side first though NobleHelium: yes of course
the spirit of the agreement was that we'd get fair warning before you settled on our side of the island Ellimist: I've told you immediately about every resource I've seen Ellimist: 1-2 turn delay about the first fish NobleHelium: you waited a long time before settling on the west side and then plant right afterwards on the east side Ellimist: no, we didn't wait on the west side at all
we're settling both as fast as we can
and we landed west settlers first NobleHelium: that may be true, but the timing is clearly evident Ellimist: what do you mean NobleHelium: evident that you planned to rush out the second settler to plant shortly after the first Ellimist: we rushed out 8 settlers NobleHelium: really? Ellimist: yes, really NobleHelium: oh I see Ellimist: we have 8 settlers at the moment NobleHelium: wait what
surely you must be joking Ellimist: nope NobleHelium: i'm really not sure what to say
so if that's true
you'll be claiming the entire middle island then? Ellimist: yes
and we're settling every other quadrant before yours NobleHelium: I don't know what to say about this
I've never seen anyone settle like this before Ellimist: which I think is beyond the spirit of the agreement, certainly far beyond the letter of the agreement NobleHelium: well like I said I don't know what to say
I've never seen anything like this before Ellimist: I can say
that I don't intend to monopolize silver/gems NobleHelium: there's very little to trade with Ellimist: eh, I wouldn't say that Ellimist: I understand you're a little surprised here Ellimist: I figured you'd have realized when we built the second galley and the workboat NobleHelium: I was suspecting it, sure
I didn't realize you built two galleys though I missed it I guess
that's what happens when every turn is played at 1 am Ellimist: freakin Kuro Ellimist: anyway, I know you're a bit irritated, but we're really trying to be fair to you as well NobleHelium: I think you're being as fair as you can be
given your plan
I don't think you expect me to like your plan, lol Ellimist: and I mean it about the Silver/gems NobleHelium: you're vague
you didn't say what you would want Ellimist: well, I'm not 100% sure
gold per turn is always an option Ellimist: we might just gift it for stuff, we still want good relations with you NobleHelium: well to be honest Ellimist: like "please don't hate us, here's a bribe" NobleHelium: I'm not sure why you expect to have good relations with anyone
if you're claiming the entire middle island Ellimist: point Ellimist: my team has sacrificed the most for exploration NobleHelium: certainly Ellimist: at the moment, we're near bottom in food and cities NobleHelium: the rankings between us three is really not clear Ellimist: the crop yield is quite striking lately NobleHelium: I'm not sure what kuro is doing Ellimist: he has as many cities as you, I believe Ellimist: and several great scientists NobleHelium: in any event, you've been leading mfg the entire time
and possibly gnp NobleHelium: he's always been at or above us in cities Ellimist: we've sacrificed science and food for MFG
anyway
your team was the 4th to get a city on the inner sea
what were the odds you'd get a nice slice of it? NobleHelium: same as the odds as the other three teams
er, other two teams rather Ellimist: yeah
well, we paid for the sacrifices for this before we knew what the island had
we were taking risk
and btw, it does NOT have marble that we have found
probably doesn't have any at all NobleHelium: that's interesting Ellimist: freakin Krill
if I'd known it didn't have any marble, I probably wouldn't have put so many settlers on it NobleHelium: I certainly wouldn't have expected it to have marble
it's reasonable for it to have it, but not surprising if it doesn't Ellimist: btw, the center tile of the map is Ivory
and it has a size 7 barbarian city NobleHelium: why is it ivory lol Ellimist: on a hill with 60% culture defense
no freakin idea
defended by guerrilla archers and some warriors NobleHelium: well that's normal
it's monarch at least Ellimist: well it'll be a bit before we can clear it Ellimist: because the city is on a 1 tile island
with 8 water tiles around it
in the center of the map Ellimist: Anyway, it's not like players aren't expected to pursue possible advantages. I expect your team will have HG and the pyramids soon and I'd hardly expect you to share them NobleHelium: oh sure i'm not saying any of that Ellimist: anyway, once we get luxuries hooked up, I'll definitely consider whatever offers you propose Ellimist: gold per turn, borrowing stone or other resources, unit transfers, etc.
So... yeah. He was kinda irritated.
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FFH-20: Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers
EITB Pitboss 1: Clan/Elohim/Calabim with Mardoc and Thoth
Okay, I played T99, sent it onward, and Noble must have planted his inner-sea city to see our settler. This resulted in the chat I posted above. I had no reason not to tell him the complete truth, so I did. Noble hasn't sent the save onward yet, so I don't know what he's thinking of doing.
Brief T99 update: I founded Vega in the southwest city site(1). The Northeast settler is in position but I'm waiting on it for the moment. Kuro paid us 33 gold at start of turn, and Monarchy completed at the end of it. We'll start on Calendar next turn.
Right now, the basic plan for Arcturus is to put one turn of production into a temple(T99) and a library(T100). At eot100, the city grows to size 6. On T101, we 3-pop whip the library, then swap to a workboat and complete it with the forest chop. The city grows back to size 4 at end of turn and on T102, we 2-pop whip the temple then swap to HR-Caste, and start working artists out of the new cities. We keep the whipped temple in queue and overflow from the chop into another WB. On T103, we complete the library, and on T104 overflow into another WB. On T105 we finish the already-whipped temple and on T106 overflow into another workboat. On T107, the city should have regrown quite a bit and we can adopt slavery again and get more stuff whipped, as well as put more MP units into it for HR happiness if needed.
Regulus currently has several workers present that are chopping forests. The chops can all be completed soon, and once they are, those workers will head to the center. I plan to grow Regulus and Sirius quite a bit soon using HR units, but it will depend on other priorities as well.
@Noble: I hope he plans to honor the NAP agreement. Even if he doesn't, he'd have to attack soon if he wanted to really set us back. I expect we'll have to load up Arcturus with HR units if we want to keep whipping the heck out of it(and I do want to). Eventually I think we'll put the globe theatre into it, that city really needs the whip/draft to be valuable.
@Kuro: I'm discussing a deal with him where we'd extend our NAP another 20 or so turns in exchange for him spreading Hinduism around his empire a bit. He just founded Christianity and plans to build the AP, so I'm already planning to spread Christianity around our empire anyway.
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FFH-20: Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers
EITB Pitboss 1: Clan/Elohim/Calabim with Mardoc and Thoth
I'm starting to think we're biting off more than we can handle.
Edit
Okay, I'm getting seriously hostile vibes from Kuro. The guy's been wanting a long NAP all game and even offering stuff for it recently, now he won't even consider one. He may even be talking to Noble, because I can't see him changing this much over one city.
It's possible(maybe likely) that I misjudged the Kuro/NH emnity. Or was misled.
I'm holding the turn for an hour or so to get a better idea of how much military we need to start building.
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FFH-20: Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers
EITB Pitboss 1: Clan/Elohim/Calabim with Mardoc and Thoth
Hmmm, NobleHelium is basically refusing to talk to me, and Kuro is almost certainly planning to attack. I've made some major blunders diplomatically, I think, or maybe there was no way to do this amicably.
A new plan and dotmap is probably a good idea...
This dotmap drops us to 7 cities instead of 8, and prioritizes defensibility. It gives up some benefits of the alternatives, but I'd rather be able to keep the cities.
I'm going to get a bunch of axes out in the next couple turns. They're decent at city defense, but it should also cause our power rating(currently the highest) to go nuts. This will set workers back a bit, but I can do nothing about that. I don't want to build/develop cities and be unable to hold them.
I'm setting us to 0% science for now. We can get Calendar or Construction in 4 turns if we lose 50 gold per turn.
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FFH-20: Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers
EITB Pitboss 1: Clan/Elohim/Calabim with Mardoc and Thoth
Okay, I sent the turn onward. I think we still have a chance to make things work as planned, but I've allowed arrogance to make things tougher than they had to be. There was no reason Vega had to be founded first, and there was no reason I couldn't have gotten Kuro to tie his hands last turn or earlier than that with the ridiculously long NAPs he's been requesting all game.
I chatted with him tonight, and I tried every angle I could think of to get him to be friendly. Bribes, begging, threats, rationalizations, everything. I even offered him free luxuries with no strings attached and he wasn't interested. Either he intends to attack us or he really wants us to think he does. The irritating thing was, he kept acting like he was open to the right offer or persuasion, but didn't make any suggestions as to what that might be. Well, at one point he suggested we let him settle half the island. I expect that would have resulted in something similar to when we let him found Judaism. Kuro doesn't seem to understand that if he wants to found a religion, or build a wonder, or settle a certain city site, he actually has to make an effort to do it before someone else can. It's like Noble and Kuro both expected these city sites to just be given to them at their leisure.
Lewwyn was ready to attack us for even suggesting that we could both settle near the stone, so I expect him to be making aggressive moves soon. I don't really expect either team to break the NAP agreements we have with them, but even if they wanted to, they don't have the boats in place yet and I'm building triremes. If we can make ourselves an unattractive target, we ought to be able to deter any serious aggression.
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FFH-20: Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers
EITB Pitboss 1: Clan/Elohim/Calabim with Mardoc and Thoth
Kuro and NH teaming up against us before we can build the current position into an unbeatable one is the only realistic thing they can do to stay in the game. I deliberately haven't said much over the last week or two, but I do hope this was taken into account when making the decision to colonize the entire inner ring?
We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing. - George Bernard Shaw
![[Image: Slide09_bowling_alley.jpg]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28594063/Slide09_bowling_alley.jpg)
Own up to it, and let the excrement hit the rotary propeller. Fun times!
![[Image: pinksplat.jpg]](http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1116194/pbem23pics/pinksplat.jpg)
![[Image: newdotmap.jpg]](http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/1872/newdotmap.jpg)
