WW27 Game Thread: Once there were 12

[Qgqqqqq]

You're saying that the heat on MJW wouldn't go away, but the wolves could kill off people who suspected him (they already killed one of them), and their own voting power would keep increasing. So to imply that he was doomed to hang sooner or later is a stretch. For example, if you are innocent, and Mattimeo is innocent, like you now presume, then they could have tried to swing one or two mislynches there.

This basically.

I can see Azarius as scum too; you, him, and Azza are the most plausible candidates right now, IMO. But both of them have a few points in their favor, but I don't have any specific points in your favor.

Hmm, I agree with this, but I'm interested in what you have in azzas favor, you were pushing him earlier?
I also don't want to get locked into this too much, I'm pretty sure there's at least one scum here but I don't want this to end up like WW17...

I understand the logic of looking at Azza, Azarius and me for scum, but I don't understand what makes me the one to focus on. What are the points in their favour that I don't have? You and Novice vote me, imply that I have to explain myself, but you've missed the part about actually building a case. Which means I have to miss the part about defending myself, because you're giving me nothing to defend against.

Unlike my scum game last time, I have been scum-hunting all the way through, and putting a ton of effort in. Azarius has been popping in occasionally saying, "Yes, I agree." We both tried to kill Mattimeo, but I led that wagon and I am happy to own it, while Azarius turns around and votes me without explanation, presumably for trying to get Mattimeo hanged instead of scum MJW as that is the only change in the game, which is EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS DOING.

And once this day begins, I am back at the coal face reading through posts, while Azarius (and others) who are awake, respond with not a peep.

Why am I scummier than Azarius? Because I asked you to switch off MJW with 30 seconds to spare? I'm not a brave wolf Zak. If my scumbuddy MJW was that likely to go down, do you think I would burn all the cred I had apparently built up with the town to try and get Mattimeo hanged instead? Because if you think Mattimeo is town, then even if I had succeeded, I would have made myself look pretty damn bad. Why wouldn't I sit snug on Jowy and let things roll as they may?

Good points, Gazglum.
Having read through your tenuous theory I don't really agree that they interact particularly suspiciously.I don't normally like multi scum theories anyway, but this one I'm not seeing the connections, even though it fits with the one on each side idea. I would like to hear more from Azarius for sure, and it looks like Jkaen is responding well (I am previewing this a bunch and can see the replies sneak up, haven't had time to actually read ).

MJW #244: MJW gives his list of thoughts on everybody, a valuable primary document. My feeling is that scum generally try to give the Goldilocks appraisal of their buddies – not too scummy, not too town. But MJW is in a world of hi own, so really I don’t know what he would do.

Unfortunately [as I posted at the time] MJW didn't really say anything about anyone here

There is one big question that as yet has not been asked.

We have already lost our doctor for the game, I find it unlikely we had 2.

A no kill on behalf of the scum I believe puts them a day behind, so would seem a very curious tactic.

Hence the most obvious solution surely must be that the village has a roleblocker. If that is the case then I would ask the roleblocker to announce who they are and who they blocked and save an awful lot of debate today.

Normally the argument would be you don't want to out a power role, but all roles we have seen so far are limited shots, so there would be a good chance he is out of power by now anyway.

I agree with this, assuming that someone had a one-shot ability, I can't see a downside in them revealing it. But I don't think they should reveal it just yet. Lets get those interaction tells happening, which would be easier if people would post today.

Agree totally, if someone has certain proof on someone, don't post it until ~2hrs before the lynch.

Also what happened to your pushes on your old candidates, today seems to be a complete switch of targets.

I agree with this (re:Gaz) but would like to take it from the other perspective, what were your views on Jkaen/Azarius pre-lynch?
What I'm getting is trust for Azarius because he was agreeing with you (or, that is, an inferred feeling from your sense of betrayal after he voted you today) which I'm not sure I understand, especially given how you've attacked zak/novice for that trust.

I don't think that's right. If we mislynched Day 2 it would be 5 town, 3 scum day 3. Then if we mislynched again it would be 3 town 3 scum. That would still allow for another day, by my calculation.

Equal numbers is a scum win.
Ok I'm giving up, there's no way I'll catch up tonight. I'm not quite sure where to place my vote in the meantime, but I'd like to hear Jowy's thoughts on this. Also Matts, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Gazglum]

So at that point, was Jowy still your top suspect?

This is one of those Novice lead ups that ends somehow with you springing a contradiction on me that sends me to the noose isn't it?

At that point Novice, I really wasn't ranking suspects much at all. I woke up, checked Werewolf because I'm obsessive and Ms Glum is away in Mexico so I can do things like have the laptop near the bed. I saw the situation, skim read, and posted.

But to answer your question, I would say Mattimeo probably eked in front again because of the responses Jowy posted during the night. Also several people had posted overnight that they thought Jowy was town-leaning. I honestly find it hard to remember, as there was only a half hour or less between me checking and the reveal of MJW's badness.

[Qgqqqqq]

What about Jowy's responses caused you to move him back below Matt on your suspect list?

Basically, we'd been asking Jowy all day to give his opinion on players and he hadn't been. This:

...

ANd this:

...

Were a step in the right direction.
But it was a little irrelevant anyway, because I woke up 10 minutes before the lynch, saw that the only possible choice was between Mattimeo and MJW, and so I voted based on my comparative feelings towards them.

Hang on, in the previous quote that Novice had up you say that Jowys posts while you were asleep pushed matt above him as scum before the lunch bt here you say you wokeup 10 minutes before and had no timeto pos. So which is true Gazglum

[novice]

Gaz, unfortunately your foot missed the spring mechanism.

[novice]

Well apparently Q spotted the trap and thinks your foot was close enough.

[Gazglum]

Yeah, I need to sign off too. I'm sorry guys, I've been a little crazy today and I know I've been spamming the thread.

You're right about the Lylo count Q, apologies.

The Jkaen thing was just a theory, I know its tenuous, and it was a reaction to my feeling that Jkaen was getting an unearned level of town credit. I am currently working on the theory that Azarius is scum, and that is what has informed my rankings of other people as well.

I agree with this (re:Gaz) but would like to take it from the other perspective, what were your views on Jkaen/Azarius pre-lynch?
What I'm getting is trust for Azarius because he was agreeing with you (or, that is, an inferred feeling from your sense of betrayal after he voted you today) which I'm not sure I understand, especially given how you've attacked zak/novice for that trust.

Jkaen I said on Day 2 that I thought he seemed helpful, but emotionally I wasn't quite convinced and could see him as scum playing a good game. But I wouldn't vote him without evidence, and that is still the case.

Azarius, as you say, was agreeing with me a lot, so I was not really paying him as much attention as he deserved. I hadn't thought about the connection with Zak/Novice, that is a fair call of hypocrisy. When people raised him as possible scum again, I reevaulated, helped along by his change of heart on me.

[Gazglum]

I read the posts Q, I just skim read them.

8:50 am: I see the vote count on page 34, vote Mattimeo because I see its MJW vs Matt 4v3 (it was actually 5v3 at that point, I'd missed Jowy's vote)

The vote ended ten minutes later. I read the intervening pages voting Mattimeo, so the initial vote was just a reaction to the lynch tally, but what I read probably pushed my Jowy suspicion down a little and did nothing for my Mattimeo suspicion.

[Gazglum]

'Read the intervening pages AFTER voting Mattimeo', sorry. I'm to bed.

[Azza]

Agree totally, if someone has certain proof on someone, don't post it until ~2hrs before the lynch.

Umm... I'd appreciate being able to view the proof before the lynch is resolved.

[Jkaen]

Exactly, we have a 48 hour day, what is everybodys obsession with doing all the reveals and vote swinging in the last couple of hours when half the players are in bed?