Civilization 5 Announced

[darrelljs]

I seem to be in the minority, but let me say that after reading the manual I find the happiness mechanics of Civ 5 quite refreshing.

You are not alone, but probably in the minority . Just the fact that it made war weariness impossible won me over.

Darrell

[Krill]

I agree with you Kylearan on the global happpiness, but there are problems with it - no where does it say that it varies with map size, for instance, and the natural wonders giving extra happiness is an unwelcome return to luck playing a major part in starting strategies (free settler in C3 anyone?)

I think that it needs significant rebalancing in the form of resources...namely, duplication of resources should be rewarded by a decreasing amount of happiness from each extra resource. Of course you'd want to swap resources around with other civs the the extra happy, but you wouldn't be hugely punished for not being able to find allies. I'm specifically thinking of resouce clumping beong one of the culprits in this problem.

[Kylearan]

I agree with you Kylearan on the global happpiness, but there are problems with it - no where does it say that it varies with map size, for instance,

You're right, but the manual also doesn't say build times scale with game speed - so I hope these are just examples of mechanics simply not mentioned in the manual but implemented in the game.

and the natural wonders giving extra happiness is an unwelcome return to luck playing a major part in starting strategies

Maybe I've missed it, but does it actually say only the first civ to discover a natural wonder gains the extra happiness?

[Aretii]

What the manual states is that they provide happiness "when first seen by a civilization." That statement is ambiguous - hence all the grumbles about copyediting seen in this thread. Later, on page 107, the manual says "Each natural wonder you discover permanently increases your civilization's happiness," lending credence to the reading of the first statement where the quantifier is for-each instead of for-all.

What I want to know is this - how do natural wonders interact with map trading? Do I have to actually bring a unit to gawk at Krakatoa to get the bonus happy, or can my good buddy Gandhi send me a postcard which does the job?

[mostly_harmless]

Do I have to actually bring a unit to gawk at Krakatoa to get the bonus happy, or can my good buddy Gandhi send me a postcard which does the job?

I have a very shitty day, but this made me laugh out loud! Thanks.

mh

[ThERat]

Kylearan, you're really not alone.

I find that new happiness concept intriguing, at least it is a refreshing new concept. We don't need a Civ 3/4 II.

And like darrelljs, I think, no WW is heavenly.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

I have no problems with the happiness mechanic in theory. I really like the idea of extra happiness leading to a Golden Age. But I do think getting rid of unhealthiness was a mistake.

As for war weariness, realism isn't necessarily the goal, but war should be costly. It takes a major toll on a civilization. And if hammers spent is the only downside to waging war, then I am not sure that is enough. Not saying war weariness is the way to go, but something else should penalize you for being in a perpetual state of war.

[Gold Ergo Sum]

Double post:

Another new Civ V article. Not much new info.

http://fidgit.com/archives/2010/09/10_co...zation.php

"Note that you can't buy multiple military units in one turn. The first unit will fill up the city's garrison slot, so you can't purchase additional units until that first one gets out of the way. Which it won't be able to do until it gets its movement points next turn."

This should clear up some of the fear that a defender could rush buy a whole huge army to defend with in one turn.

"I had a fleet of ironclads terrorizing the Chinese coast, fueled by coal sent to me by my steadfast allies in the city-state of Copenhagen. When Copenhagen was conquered by another civilization and my coal level was suddenly negative 3, my ironclads fought at half strength. Ouch. It's hard to terrorize a coastline when you're running from caravels. So you don't just need to find a resource to build new units, you need to keep it."

This piece of information is new to me. It means you better not get pillaged during a war, or

"In Civilization IV, you had to manually fly recon missions for your airplanes every turn. What a drag. If there's one thing a king doesn't want to do, it's play air traffic controller every turn. But in Civilization V, you'll never launch another recon missions. Instead, aircraft are assumed to be running recon missions every turn, which is represented by giving them a six hex visibility range."

This was a bit of micro I am fine with being rid of.

"Units get experience when they're attacked. You don't have to initiate combat, or even win it, to get experience. In fact, you can park an army within range of enemy fire, say from a city. Then, assuming your unit is tough to enough to soak up some damage, you can farm the ranged fire for experience points. Which makes the healing ability that much more useful."

If video game reviewers are doing this on single player, then you know the multiplayer concerns are probably valid.

[Adlain]

why do i get the feeling there will be a very large "Banned Moves" List when we get going on the multiplayer/ single player compitions.

[Aretii]

I kind of like the fact that losing a strategic resource has an impact. It means that gifted units in MP will have less of an effect, and also adds a cute tactical dimension of supply lines - I can launch raids with fast movers to cut off your resources before engaging your army in the field! Guarding your supply lines will have immediate tactical relevancy, as opposed to eventual (who cares if you pillage my iron? My Praets are knocking on your front door, chief).

Tidbit #7 was interesting because you can buy multiple buildings on the same turn (!). They are really pushing this gold/beaker dichotomy, and I can't say I disapprove. In C4, gold was primarily useful as a converse of beakers. You used it to fund research. If you had a big empire, then you had less research, but the gold was not generally useful in and of itself (with notable exceptions being for upgrades and the occasional sweetener for a tech or other diplo deal). In C5, gold is useful for so many things! You buy extra tiles if your culture isn't going fast enough, you conduct diplo exclusively with it (because tech trading is gone), you upgrade, you need to pay maintenance, and you buy units and buildings. In C4, food was incredibly important because it affected both growth (which let you work more tiles) and production (through use of the whip), so lots of food was often the One Right Choice in a city. In C5, food is obviously still important, and probably still the best, but the fact that the rush capability has moved to gold makes the tradeoffs much more interesting. I imagine a military juggernaut that annexes captures immediately, using gold rushes to immediately put up the courthouse and barracks and keeps moving, turning the captured infrastructure into productive ironworks right away. Neat stuff!

Joint military exercises definitely seems a potent exploit. I don't see an easy solution, though - poor Firaxis.