[Spoilers] Biggus Decius and the Sucking Vampires (Bobchillingworth / Calabim)

[Mardoc]

So, basically, you're planning to win by Conquest or Domination (whichever is enabled by vassaling), by attacking everyone else weakest to strongest?

And that's the order because you expect your military might to be constantly growing as you keep training and feeding your vampires (and acquiring vassalized armies), so what you're capable of taking on while deterring the rest will keep increasing?

[Ravus Sol]

Don't forget Domination will be easier for you with your Mannor-Courthouse equivalents then most of the other players.

So it's a Vampire offensive play with backup from Council of Esus secrecy or Ashen Veil Ring of Fire? Sounds good. How do you feel your Winter Elves will fit into your current Military plan? Do you have something specific in mind or them just being basic extra ground troopers?

I've also forgotten if Vassals are officially enabled in this game or wether it is just via Diplomacy.

[Bobchillingworth]

Yeah, I mainly want to start my campaign of aggression with the weakest civs because I think they'll be much easier for my early military to take on. Right now all I have are some catapults, lots of bloodpets, and several moroi, so my offensive army is going to have to be built from the ground up. I'd like to get a conquest or two out of the way quickly rather than sitting around waiting for full ritualist support, another death node, etc., so that really just leaves Cull (and possibly PB if Iskender joins in). I am also definitely worried about other civs attacking me while I'm in the middle of a war. If I attack Selrahc immediately and get bogged down, it would be a disaster if Iskender and/or PB decided to take advantage of the situation and invade me. If I have an ever-growing shield of vassals, hopefully I'll be able to get a snowball effect rolling. Of course I can't actually force a human vassal to actively assist me, aside from making them agree to a written treaty and hoping they abide by it. Not much I can do otherwise.


Sareln's role is Assassin / Hunter support. He only has three cities (one of them just founded), so I'm not expecting a ton. I'm happy for him to just add another layer of defense to my civ, to deter potential aggressors while I'm busy attacking someone else.


Vassals should be on for the game, and are a major part of my plan. Any opponent who has capitulated counts as an elimination for the purposes of a conquest win. So if someone capitulates to me quickly in a conflict I can avoid a lot of the hammer and time investment that would be involved in burning / capturing all of their cities. I'm hoping that capitulation will be a fairly attractive offer to some civs, particularly PB, because it enables them to continue pursuing one of the peaceful win conditions alone in peace. That fact makes conquest through vassalage a somewhat risky proposition; if PB does capitulate before I can raze one of his best culture cities, I'd need to rush to secure my own win.

Vassals don't add their full land to your domination percentage, and Selrahc controls (or will control) about a fourth of the map, so domination via capitulation might not be possible.

[DaveV]

Bob sent me a save so I could do the tech analysis. Here's what the enemy civs appear to have:

Selrahc:
11 cities
Agriculture
Ancient Chants
Animal Husbandry
Bronze Working
*Archery
Calendar
Cartography
Crafting
*Divination
Education
Exploration
Festivals
*Hunting
*Knowledge of the Ether
Masonry
Mining
*Mysticism
*Philosophy
*Way of the Wicked
Writing

Pocketbeetle:
13 cities/settlements
Agriculture
Ancient Chants
Animal Husbandry
Bronze Working
*Archery
Calendar
Cartography
Code of Laws
Construction
Crafting
*Currency
Education
Exploration
Festivals
*Fishing
Horseback Riding
*Hunting
*Knowledge of the Ether
Masonry
*Mathematics
*Message from the Deep
Mining
*Mysticism
*Philosophy
*Priesthood
*Sailing
Sanitation
Trade
*Way of the Earthmother
Writing

Iskender
9 cities
Agriculture
Ancient Chants
Animal Husbandry
*Archery
*Archery
Calendar
Crafting
Education
Exploration
Festivals
*Fishing
Horseback Riding
Masonry
Mining
*Mysticism
*Priesthood
Writing

Cull
6 cities
Agriculture
Ancient Chants
Animal Husbandry
Bronze Working
*Archery
Calendar
Crafting
Education
Exploration
Festivals
*Fishing
Mining
*Mysticism
*Priesthood
Sanitation

[DaveV]

More reactions to the save:

at Sareln's parade of captured animals:



Pocketbeetle doesn't have Arete, which means a play for Mines of Gal'dur is still a possiblity. He also doesn't have Way of the Wicked, so the Nox Noctis plan still looks good.

What are PB and Selrahc researching toward? Selrahc may be trying to lightbulb his way to religious law so he can grab theology with the tower of divination. Not sure this is a smart play, though: it soups up his Priests, but gives him nothing else. Maybe he's trying to speed down the Mage branch? Not so easy for a non-arcane race to gain experience on adepts.

Pocketbeetle: maybe optics for sea domination and access to the Island of Lost Toys?

On achieving Domination: I think there's extra land out there in the ocean (Island of Lost Toys), so vassalizing Cull may hurt your chances. I think going AV and building Nox Noctis is a good plan. Then start killing people. If you disciple-bomb a city immediately after capturing, you don't have to worry about a counter-attack on your wounded units.

It might be worth considering pumping the AC to get Blight. You should be able to prepare for it by feasting your cities down to extremely small size, then they'd grow back to decent size really quickly.

[Bobchillingworth]

for the tech summary.


Seriously, you are awesome



W-what are Cull and Iskender doing with Priesthood? Cull's latest two cities both appeared in the list very recently, btw. I'm happy to see that he hasn't entirely given up on the game and is making an effort to be at least minimally competitive. I really don't understand what logic drives his decisions, though. No Earthmother? Bambur is still out there too.


Speaking of which, why hasn't PB gone for Arete? He has plenty of mines and really should be trying to get everything he can out of his civ. Maybe he's thinking of a naval-based attack? But he's still a pretty long way off from galleons. I still suspect he's planning on attacking me with a bunch of centaur chargers, so I'm having Sareln constantly scan the borders for massing Kurios.


Even Selrahc has made some very strange choices. Zooming in on his cities shows that at least his capital has an academy- but he isn't running Godking, and his capital is like size 11 with just a few villages for commerce. I may be way off the mark here, but I think of all the games running on RB, this one might be the closest for everyone being at around the same rough skill level. Supposedly only Selrahc, Iskender, and I had much experience with the mod before joining the game, but I get the impression that everyone is still learning as they go along. At least I know I am =)


Offensive Blight sounds awesome, btw- might make me a target though, razing AV cities is a great way to reduce the counter.

[DaveV]

for the tech summary

You're welcome. I probably made a few errors, but I think it's pretty close.

Offensive Blight sounds awesome, btw- might make me a target though, razing AV cities is a great way to reduce the counter.

As soon as the other players see some vampires, you'll be a target anyway. It might be worth putting a few more guys into Acaia, since that's the obvious invasion point. Try to keep some unpromoted units, so you can slap Mobility on them if necessary. Moroi with Mobility and Burning Blood are movement 3, blitz units - great for counterattack.

And the best way to pump the AC is with the Prophecy of Ragnarok. AV spread is relativey slow.

[Mist]

Even Selrahc has made some very strange choices. Zooming in on his cities shows that at least his capital has an academy- but he isn't running Godking, and his capital is like size 11 with just a few villages for commerce.

You're making misinterpretation of a game mechanic here, so correcting you shouldn't constitute a spoiler.

God King is commerce neutral. It doubles gold output of a city. So him running it or not wouldn't make a shred of difference for the academy. It's a good civic gold-wise if you don't have a lot of cities, use gold giving specialists and run low research slider. Most people run it just for double production and/or because of the same misunderstanding you just made.

[Bobchillingworth]

Thanks for the clarification, Mist.



Hey Dave, check this crap out- screenshot I got from Sareln earlier today:





(The Red X is where Sareln is going to put a blocking city- his idea.)

PB really needs to learn subtlety. I can think of no logical reason for this isolated and absurdly aggressive settlement besides that he must intend it as a launching point to invade me or Sareln (or both). The units pictured are three Centaur Archers, and two workers, so he doesn't have his army in yet. Still, this is a ridiculous provocation.

Should I bother calling him on in an email, or just stay silent and prioritize him on my hit-list? PB isn't aware that I have maps of his territory or that Sareln is feeding me this info via recon, so I don't want to let him know more about my intelligence network than is absolutely necessary. But if I can avoid getting attacked I'd like to do so, regardless of how feeble his military might be.


Also seen in the picture, Selrahc is going rather light on military at the moment, assuming the visible border down is representative of most of his frontier garrisons. That makes me feel a little better about some of the health buildings I've finally started to queue up, although the obvious PB threat means that Acaia and that city above it now need more garrison.


Edit: It is possible that he only settled there to get the banana (he gets his current source from Cull), but I sort of really totally doubt it.

[Maksim]

God King is commerce neutral. It doubles gold output of a city. So him running it or not wouldn't make a shred of difference for the academy. It's a good civic gold-wise if you don't have a lot of cities, use gold giving specialists and run low research slider. Most people run it just for double production and/or because of the same misunderstanding you just made.

Hmm... I thought it only added +50% in gold and hammers, rather than +100% (doubling)?

Regardless, it's very nice if you have a shrine in your capital - e.g. if Cull landed Runes of Kilmorph whilst still on one city (a legit dwarf strategy who are OK with vertical rather than horizontal growth), then the shrine gold would benefit from the God King even when running 100% science.