RBP3 - [SPOILERS] - Team DIM (Mehmed of HRE)

[meatbalz]

apologies for the walls of text but diplo's been coming thick and fast

Greeting Holy Rome!

Wel met and best of luck in the game!

As you probably learnt from England, we're located to their south, with Babylon immediately to our east, and Byzantium further east still (though we're yet to meet them).

We've recent met Maya, who are to our west.

We understand that from England you're heading to meet Carthage. Would you mind telling us where we might find them?

Best Wishes

Emperor Capac

so they want to tag along to the summit. that might cause a few problems. we might want to steer them towards ottomans instead?

we also now have a full picture of the world

it's not a completely accurate representation, but it's close enough to work off. it should be used to get rough bearings, not as full directions. anyone we send it to, we need to append that disclaimer. you'd expect the capitals to be ~16 tiles apart if the civs were evenly spaced, but they're closer than that so there's some empty space somewhere in the map... based on sirian's map guide at CFC, the likelihood is this is a modified 64x64 team battleground. given the lack of contacts by france, england, mali etc the likelihood is they're bordering the desert from the N, as are sumeria/india/aztec/rome from the S.

we can start by sending it to ottomans, aztec, india, and egypt (we'll need some slack from krill in terms of what we provide in the tech trade, giving useful map info is one way to offset that)



i'm such an artist *pimp*

[meatbalz]

per the map above it's easy to see why i say the ottomans are getting a "free ride" (ilios is right, it's too strong a term, but it conveys the general impression).

the diplomacy is fragile and subject to change but at the moment the ottomans are members of the
"entente cordiale": ottomans + HRE
"alliance": "entente" + india + aztec
"cartel": "alliance" + carthage + egypt + portugal (+england?)

the cartel is the amazing one: if we bring england in, ottomans have literally ZERO military threats from any of their neighbours until all the expensive techs have been researched, which is well over 30 turns from now. WOW

without belabouring the point, we need the ottomans to realise we're negotiating them into a position of complete safety in the early game - proof that we see our long-term interests aligned with theirs i guess

we also need to be aware of the following
1) expect india + aztec to have something similar to our own entente cordiale in mind
2) i believe egypt had referred to getting as many as 10 civs into the first tech trade. with england we'd be up to 8. who else is in?
mali - very unlikely. it's another civ we'd have to trust to keep quiet + they're right on babylon's borders so wouldn't want to tick them off by backing out
france - forget it. we've vetoed them
maya - complete unknown
byzantium - if we send the map to egypt and he realises byz is his neighbour (he may know it already, can't remember), he'll either lock byz out of trade or use the trade in exchange for byz attacking someone else. interesting.
sumeria - vetoed by either india or egypt, can't remember which

inca and rome are the really interesting ones for us. if aztec were to get inca into the Cartel, they would leave them alone + turn on rome. which for us is a Very Good Thing. we need to chat to Ruff asap, ideally he's able to dissuade inca from attacking him + going for rome instead. ilios do you want to set that up with ruff or do you want me to take care of it. (and am i missing something in the diplo which makes this impossible/unwise, other than the time it would take inca to meet the other cartel members - irrelevant as we just need the carrot to put them on rome instead of aztec)

or ANOTHER alternative. if inca does go after aztec, we need to meet rome and tell them inca's underdefended. SO many options

[Ilios]

Nice map!

Message from Ottomans:

Greetings DIM

As we have already mentioned in passing via chat, we have recently met
Krill. He has clarified the alliance to us, so now we have the full
picture. However, you mentioned that you are no longer going for HBR
but Krill still thinks that you are. Could you clarify this for us?

We have unfortunately invited Carthage into a chat but realized that
you wanted us to wait until you have made contact with them. We have
stalled it for now but we would appreciate if the two of you could
meet ASAP. They have recently informed us that they have passed the
lake's southern point and are moving east. Could you send a screenshot
to us with Tricky's position so that we can co-ordinate this meeting
without many difficulties?

We will keep in touch with you as much as possible. Hopefully your
team will also do the same.

I won't have access to the game, MB could you take care of the screenshot, and send it back to them. (remember to minimize the interface with alt + i and ctrl + i) I won't have access to the game for at least 24 hours. Tell them that our tech path is still under consideration as there are other parties who might want to take HBR as well. Thanks!

message from Ruff:

P of Dim,

Inca? Just a feeling. An initial 'Hi' and then no contact for ages until a few days ago. I asked for a NAP to T75 (which is next to nothing) and they said it was too long. They also had a Q sniffing round my city locations as well as my feeling that I am a bit of a joicy option for them (Holy City). All in all at the moment, it is just a feeling.

Suggestion: you follow my warrior to them and if it turns out that they aren't attacking ... great. If it turns out that they do have aggressive tendencies, could you follow my warrior on a lightning raid against their capital. I would go in first and if it is too hot, warn you and you can bug out. You would probably have to declare on them when we get to their border (again, if they have aggressive tendencies) to follow me in, but it isn't as if they can actually hurt you.

Anyway, its not locked in yet as they haven't done anything concrete. Just follow my warrior and we can either help you meet them or we can have some fun re a dagger strike at their capital.

Cheers,

Ruff

I'd not answer anything yet. I'll have access to the forum in about 5 hours. Let's discuss this first and then formulate a plan.

[meatbalz]

sounds good re: aztec. we need to go back relatively quickly though as i'm guessing those inca quechuas/axe (more likely the latter?) aren't going to hang around. we'll have to monitor power ratings very closely the next turn or two.

answered the ottomans

[meatbalz]

T52

DIM [settler, 6T]
Midas [warrior, 4T]

Tricky - moved NW, found Carthage's borders, contact next turn
Hi Ruff - follows Follow Me! northward
Stakhanov - done chopping
Sysiphus - chop 2t
Worker3 - road 2t (canceled)

we're generating 1 beaker/turn, i'm tentatively putting it into masonry, alternative options are HBR and meditation.

[Ilios]

Reply from Ottomans:

It's great news that you are about to meet Carthage. Trying to make
England meet with India + Egypt is a bit more challenging. India has a
warrior a couple of tiles N of Egypt that we are trying to contact.
Egypt also has a warrior slightly NW of us.

While we would like to help you have England meet India & Egypt, your
team does have direct contact with the 2 teams in question. We suggest
that you talk to the teams directly to lessen the chance of errors
(also we are busy enough with diplo ourselves).

As it would seem they haven't met India yet, I would like to inform our friendly neighbours about the "Alliance" within the Cartel, and discuss the possibility of the Entente between us. MB, could you draft up a message to them, as it seems you would like to include a subliminal message to the Ottomans telling them what a good deal we're arranging...
I'm a bit curious about the diplo, as I thought they had only met Krill, Carthage and us so far.

We still haven't replied Mali. I suggest we just send them a message telling them to follow Tricky to meet Carthage.

I am thinking of a plan re Inca and Aztec.
Draft to Ruff:

Ruff,


Our warrior (whom we will be renaming Francisco Pizarro) will tag along to at least meet with Inca. Allthough a lightning strike is always an option, I am left wondering if we couldn't try some hardball diplomacy at first.

We could start with some subturfuge. Franscisco could move ahead of your warrior and follow your directions to Inca. As soon as we meet them ingame, and we're moving along their borders, they are bound to offer an NAP. If they offer an NAP for at least 25 turns, we can safely assume they are coming for you. That's when I would like to try a combination of a staredown (e.g. threats of a dogpile by the Alliance members) and a suggestion to take out Inca's eastern neighbour instead, Rome.
If they still won't listen to reason, your warrior could move in for a lightning strike.

Anyway, this could be all academic if it turns out they weren't going to attack you after all...


Regards,


Ilios - DIM

Inca have done a 2-pop whip two turns ago, and whipped again this turn (1pop). They're up to something...

[Ilios]

Just had a chat with Ottomans, will post it soon. MB no email is needed atm, check the chat.

me: there's something we've wanted to discuss for a while, but things are getting hectic

Ottoman: ok

me: too many contacts...

Ottoman: i know

we will meet india next turn

and then we have 5
11:38 AM
me: we just met Carthage, so I think that puts us at 8-9

Ottoman: we are still catching up though

me: anyway, I wanted to discuss India

a couple of turns ago Rego and I had a chat
11:39 AM
as you know, after the first tech trades within the "Cartel", the alliance will almost certainly fall apart
11:40 AM
India want HRE to form an alliance within the Cartel, together with Aztec
11:41 AM
Ottoman: interesting

me: we haven't committed yet, but will probably join
11:42 AM
Ottoman: are we included or not?

me: well that's what i wanted to ask

i already mentioned you guys to India

Ottoman: we hven't met india yet
23 minutes
12:06 PM
me: can you see me online

got some connection issues

Ottoman: yeah

np though

me: this what i wanted to say:
12:07 PM
but as our favourite neighbours, we would prefer Ottomans to join
this is all confidential you understand

Ottoman: of course

we have to meet india before we can do anything

but we are doing a favor for aztec

me: how so?
12:08 PM
Ottoman: we met last turn

me: not good?

Ottoman: he mentioned that he is in trouble since inca are being hostile and he wants his copper hooked up safely
12:09 PM
so our chariot is going to cover for him if they attack beforehand

me: ah good

Ottoman: inca have a warrior UU nearby his source
12:10 PM
i think aztec would vote for us in too thanks to this

me: our warrior is moving together with Ruffs to Incan land for a lightnigh raid if diplomacy fails

Ottoman: he mentioned that

athough we can't do much more

me: no but we're showing we can be trusted

Ottoman: agree
12:11 PM
me: what we would like to suggest is we join the Alliance

but form an secret "Entente" between Ottomans and HRE
12:12 PM
Ottoman: i would have to consault wit the rest o the team

but persnally, i am not sure how it would work
12:13 PM
me: well, lets say the alliance works for a while after the Cartel splits up

both India and Aztec have experienced MP players
12:14 PM
Ottoman: wait, are you suggesting that we do or don't join?

me: we join ofcourse

Ottoman: us?

me: also

4 team alliance

but within this alliance

Ottoman: ah, i thought that you had no included us

silly me

me: I trust you guys a lot more than India or Aztec
12:15 PM
Ottoman: ok, i think that can work

but what could the 2 of us do above the alliance?

me: nothing initially
12:16 PM
Ottoman: i suppose we could stay allies for the entire game if that is what you mean

me: I'm talking long term

Ottoman: yu mean, if tealliance breaks up

me: exactly

or if they screw us over
12:17 PM
Ottoman: ok, i understand now

i still think aztec could b worthwhile since if we do save them from inca if diplomacy fails, he admits he owes us a huge debt
12:18 PM
but time will tell

me: yeah, i'm not saying we need to diuble cross the others

Ottoman: for now, let's just stay with between us for now

me: *double cross

agreed
12:19 PM
I plan on taking point re diplo with Inca

Ottoman: its ok for the keyboard to be bad, mine fails whenever i chat to anothr team

me: i have a vague plan to stare them down

i will probably tell them that if Inca attacks, they will be dogpiled by three other civs
12:20 PM
don't worry, i don't expect you to send anyting

Ottoman: aren't we bluffing?

me: it would be a bluff

Ottoman: they could call us

me: they could, but then still Aztec would take the brunt of the attack

giving us time to build forecs

but I can be pretty convicing
12:21 PM
what do you think.

?

Ottoman: so, what is your relation to inca? have they been aggresive to you or anything?

me: (I'd like to sic Inca on Rome next door...)

not at all

but I don't like early aggressors
12:22 PM
Ottoman: is Rome next door?

me: east of Inca

to our NE

meatbalz will send you a complete world map soon
12:23 PM
Ottoman: ok, we had our own world map but I made a mistake in it


12:24 PM
we think we know where most of the otherteams are located anyway

or I do at least

me: good
12:25 PM
so do I try the bluff with Inca?

Ottoman: dunno

this early, I think not

me: you're not really at risk
12:26 PM
but discuss it with your team

Ottoman: then again, we haven't met inca yet, so we don't hve anything betweenus yet

me: tell me if you come up with a better idea

Ottoman: have you spoken to aztec about this?
12:27 PM
me: I won't mention the ottomans for now

we haven't met them yet

ah aztec

sorry

not yet

i was planning on sending an email
12:28 PM
anyway, I need to go

Ottoman: ok,will get back to u

me: let's keep Inca question apart for a while

so we agree join Alliance

but keep close to each other
12:29 PM
Ottoman: we han't heard it from anyone else yet, but weprobably will join alliace

me: well after you discuss with the team

Ottoman: agree

me: later buddy

Ottoman: cya

me: exiting times ahead

and an email from Ruff:

Greetings,

I am sending this to my three alliance members. Inca send me an email continuing my NAP discussion. I short back one that gave them 4 options (even down to a 10t one) and then caught them in chat where I offered a 5t one. Nakor was taking the line that he was only a messenger so I am calling their bluff.

The total dialog is here (http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showpost....tcount=138) - that is a link to 1 single entry in my spoiler thread - you have my permission to view it (and only it <grin>).

Cheers,

Ruff

[meatbalz]

diplo moving fast as usual sorry i missed out but i was out late last night and woke up at 2pm today

we've made contact with Carthage
I sent England an update on Tricky's location
I sent Mali directions to Carthage
I sent Ottomans our "world map"

the turn was also played without any issues.

good call on Pizarro, I've told you before but I like your style Ilios things are going to heat up in a hurry up there...

[dazedroyalty]

Just checking in. Looks like things are going well. I'm pleased that we seem to be doing really well in terms of making contact with other teams - which also means I'm really grateful that I'm not responsible for emailing them all myself!

[Ilios]

I've revised the Microplan, to take into account our revolt to slavery and to correct some overflow plans.
I do have a question:
If I have a worker at 54/60, and then 1 pop whip, producing 5F + 6H. I then finish the worker with an overflow of 39 hammers, and start a chariot, producing 3 H/turn. The chariot finishes the turn after. Can I count on the surplus overflow (in this case 12H) to flow into the next build? Or do I lose the surplus, and is it therefore better to put the initial overflow in say another worker?

Anyway, here's what it looks like if I keep the surplus overflow:

T53 Settler (47/100)
chop B done, Stakhanov moves W, Karl Marx (worker 3) moves W and starts road
T54 Settler (79/100)
Stakh starts chop C, Sys build road, Marx finishes road
T55 Settler (91/100)
Sysiphus finishes road, Marx moves SW starts road
T56 Worker (0/60) [Settler 103/100]
Chop C done, Sys moves to SW of DIM via DIM, finishes road, then Settler moves SW - W - SW, Marx finishes road ---- REVOLT TO SLAVERY----
T57 Worker (28/60)
Stakhanov builds road, Sys moves towards Horse site, but stays in borders, Settler + Karl Marx move to Horse site
T58 Worker 41/60)
Horse city founded, Marx moves to horse and starts pasture, Stack road finished, Sys moves SW on wheat starts road
T59 Worker (54/60)
Stack moves NE and starts mine, Sys road finished (Horse city and DIM connected) - 1-pop whip
T60 Chariot (0/30) [Worker 96/60] - DIM max food (2/1/1-4/1/2-4/1/0-3/0/1)
Sys moves to Horse Pasture, finishes it with Marx [Horse strategic resource connected], worker 4 SE mines with Stakh, then cancel order
T61 Chariot (0/30) [Chariot 39/30] DIM (7/26)
Sys moves to forest N of Horse site, Marx moves to wheat, starts farm, Stakh finishes mine, worker 4 moves SW - SE starts road then cancel order
T62 Chariot (12/30) DIM (14/26)
Sys chop E, worker #4 E start copper mine
T63 Chariot (15/30) DIM (21/26)
Stakh moves SW -SE, finishes road
T64 Worker or Granary [Chariot 18/30] DIM (2/28 ) max hammer (2/1/1-4/1/2-4/1/0-1/3/1-0/4/1)
chop E finished, Stakh moves to copper, mine finished [Copper strategic resource connected]

We should come up with a micro for Horse city and Midas as well.